Does This Make Sense?

[BJackson]

I have ordered the Y-67 test hoping to find a surname as I do not know the identity of my father. So far, my results are back to Y-37 and 38-67 are pending. I have 396 matches at Y-12 (distances 0 to 2), 295 matches at Y-25 (distances 1 to 2), and 0 matches at Y-37 at any distance. In my Y-25 results, the most common surname is Martin. There are 20 that are 24/25 and 16 that are 23/25, for a total of 36. But for my Y-12 results, there is only one Martin (11/12); this person is also in my Y-25 list at 23/25.

So my question is this: If I have 36 Martins in my Y-25 results, shouldn't I have at least that many in my Y-12 results?

I ask because there apparently was a problem with my 38-67 markers and apparently the assay is being re-run. I am wondering if there is a problem with my 1-12, 13-25, and 26-37 marker tests, also.

[mahgninnuc]

Hi,
A lot of people won't show up at 1-12 markers unless you join a project they belong to. Find the Martin project and see if you can join it. You might suddenly find a lot of Martin matches.

[prairielad]

if these Martin's are in a surname project, you would have to compare their 12 markers and see what their values are also, maybe they are all 10/12 at the 12 marker level. only exact matches show at 12 marker level, unless in same project then 11/12 matches show or a member of a adoptee project.

In the 25 marker level (need to be in same projects, or email and inquire), do the 23/25 Martin matches have the 2 differences on the 12 marker STR's, both 12 marker and 25 marker, or just in the 25 marker level?


https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/...-matches-page/
"The Y-DNA – Matches page shows your relevant matches in the customer database who have signed the release form. There are several cases where some matches in the customer database will not be included on your match list. They are:
1.For the Y-DNA12 testing level, 11 out of 12 matches are shown only when both you and your match belong to the same group project**
2.If you have chosen to match only against those in your group projects on the myFTDNA – Account Settings page of your myFTDNA account, your contact information will only be shown to those in your projects.
3.If your match has chosen to match only against the group project on the myFTDNA – Account Settings page of their myFTDNA account, their contact information will be shown only to those who belong to one of their group projects.
4.If you have chosen to turn off matching at a specific testing level (Y-DNA12, Y-DNA37, etc.), your contact information will not be shown to matches at that level.

** To best serve our customers who are adopted, we provide at the Y-DNA12 level both 11/12 and 12/12 matching to the entire Family Tree DNA database to those in the Adoptee Project. This is because they cannot know the best Surname project to join in advance of testing."

[hishy]

Well, if you see some people in 12 Marker match , this does not mean that you will see them in 25 or 37 or 67 match .

Same thing applies for 25 match, 37 match.

For 25 Match , it only shows you people who match you up to 2 genetic distances (i.e 23 shared STR values out of 25). For 37 Match, it only shows you people who match you up to 4 genetic distances (i.e 33 Markers out of 37).

If the genetic distance for the first 25 markers is more than two between you and different person, let's say 3 genetic distances (e.g. 22 matching values out of 25) then the FTDNA will not consider that person to be a match.

Thus, someone might match you 23 out of 25 , and you see him in your 25 marker match, BUT this does not guarantee that you see him in 12 Match , because the different two STR values might be in the FIRST 12 MARKERS.

12 Markers match only shows people who either exact match you (12/12), or match you 1 genetic step difference (11/12).


It's worth noting that people who match you in 25 markers but not in 67 markers might be more closer to you than those who you see in 67 matches.

This is because that STR values can change randomly and quickly between a generation to another generation. For example, you might match your cousin 67/67 but if you test your grandfather then you might match him 66/67.

[BJackson]

Thanks for the replies. I did not know the part about Y-12 matches not showing unless one is in the same surname project. Funny thing is, I actually did join the Martin project for a while, although I was far from confident that was actually my surname given the lack of Y-37 matches. But it was the most common surname in my list of matches at Y-25, by far. The Martin project administrator removed me stating that she did not believe I was related to the Martin line, which is fine. She is probably right.

I also did not know the part about adoptees. I should inquire about that because my case is one of unknown paternity. I would think the same thing should apply.

Thanks,

Brent

[BJackson]

Upon looking closer...

@Mahgninnc and Prarielad: This is odd. I did not know the policy about not showing 11/12 matches in the Y-12 list unless part of a particular surname project or being in the adoptee project. As I mentioned above, I was briefly in the Martin project. But I am not currently part of any surname project and I am not part of the adoptee project. Yet out of my 407 Y-12 matches, 167 of them are 11/12 matches (genetic distance 1). These 11/12 matches represent multiple surnames. Unless I am misunderstanding you both, those 167 11/12 matches should not show up in my list of Y-12, is that correct? Or is it possible that I might be seeing an incomplete listing of all my 11/12 matches?

I don't want to get get hung up on the Martin surname, but I will use it as an example. My Y-12 results show only one match with the surname Martin. This person matches 11/12. There are no Martins at 12/12. But my Y-25 results show 20 Martins at 24/25 (For the case of illustration, I will ignore the 16 Martins that match 23/25). Even if those 20 24/25 matches had the mismatch in the Y-12 range, they should still be 11/12. Unless I am getting an incomplete listing of those with one-step mismatches at the Y-12 level, I would think there should be at least 20 Martins at Y-12, even if they all are 11/12 matches. So it would seem to me, given what you both have said, that I have an incomplete listing of 11/12 matches at Y-12. If not, then it would seem there might be a problem with my DNA results.

@Hishy: Sorry, I guess I did not word my question well. I fully understand what you said, but my question related to 24/25 matches at Y-25 not showing up in Y-12 as 11/12 or 12/12. I would expect that matches would go down as the number of markers goes up, as you said. I would not expect the number of matches to go up with more markers, which is what I am seeing.