High #, and Scottish at 67 markers

[mabrams]

I am the admin of the Abrams DNA. One of my participants has almost 500 matches at 67 markers. That in itself surprised me. (I only have 4, all known 5th cousins).

A high fraction, perhaps as much as 2/3 clearly have Scottish names.

This man can not trace past early 1800s in the US, and was not aware of any Scottish background.

Only one of these 500 matches has the same surname of Abrams, and we do not know how they connect. The other person can trace back to mid 1700s but was not aware of the Scottish connection until the YDNA test. She (her brother) has about 200 of these mostly Scottish matches.

so....

A. Is it typical to have that many 67 marker matches? I was surprised by this large number for such a refined test

B. Are Scottish populations endogamic? Perhaps within their own clan? Altho heavily Scots-Irish myself, I dont know that much about Scotland itself.

C. Would getting a SNP test help to identify which specific Scottish population or clan? Or the BigY?

[Rebekah Canada]

Hello,

It sounds to me like your project member is modal for one of the big clans. I recommend checking in with some of the clan admins like Bob McLaren, [email protected].

I am the admin of the Abrams DNA. One of my participants has almost 500 matches at 67 markers. That in itself surprised me. (I only have 4, all known 5th cousins).

A high fraction, perhaps as much as 2/3 clearly have Scottish names.

This man can not trace past early 1800s in the US, and was not aware of any Scottish background.

Only one of these 500 matches has the same surname of Abrams, and we do not know how they connect. The other person can trace back to mid 1700s but was not aware of the Scottish connection until the YDNA test. She (her brother) has about 200 of these mostly Scottish matches.

so....

A. Is it typical to have that many 67 marker matches? I was surprised by this large number for such a refined test

B. Are Scottish populations endogamic? Perhaps within their own clan? Altho heavily Scots-Irish myself, I dont know that much about Scotland itself.

C. Would getting a SNP test help to identify which specific Scottish population or clan? Or the BigY?

[PDHOTLEN]

As for me, I want to see Y-DNA haplogroup lines for Medieval Norwegian royalty. They probably would also connect to Scotland. I still remember my father telling me we were related to Norwegian royalty, which would have to be from back in Medieval times.

[mabrams]

200 matches down to 3

Referring to my first message, two of the people in my Abrams surname group have large numbers of matches at 67 markers. One has over 500 and one has over 200 (and they match each other).

I talked the 200 match person into testing for 111 markers. She did (via her brother) and Iwarned her the 200 matches might drop a lot. It sure did. She (her brother) went from over 200 down to just 3 and they are 10 markers off.

Nor do the three names left sound very Scottish.

How does one explain dropping from 200 matches to 3 weak matches? I thought 67 markers was considered rock-solid (albeit they were 63/67 or less).

Should the 200 matches at 67 still be considered matches, but just another 8 or more generations further back?

What should be the next step?

Would the Big Y be helpful here? I dont understand Big Y in terms of genealogical timeframes and matching very well so I really dont know what to tell her.

thks

[1798]

Referring to my first message, two of the people in my Abrams surname group have large numbers of matches at 67 markers. One has over 500 and one has over 200 (and they match each other).

I talked the 200 match person into testing for 111 markers. She did (via her brother) and Iwarned her the 200 matches might drop a lot. It sure did. She (her brother) went from over 200 down to just 3 and they are 10 markers off.

Nor do the three names left sound very Scottish.

How does one explain dropping from 200 matches to 3 weak matches? I thought 67 markers was considered rock-solid (albeit they were 63/67 or less).

Should the 200 matches at 67 still be considered matches, but just another 8 or more generations further back?

What should be the next step?

Would the Big Y be helpful here? I dont understand Big Y in terms of genealogical timeframes and matching very well so I really dont know what to tell her.

thks

The Big Y is the best SNP test that is on offer at FTDNA at present. One will find out the family or private SNPs through this test. A couple of men in my group are within 10 GD at 111 markers but they each have 10 singleton SNPs. Dr.Ian McDonald reckons that it could possibly be 135 years per SNP in our group.

[1798]

Referring to my first message, two of the people in my Abrams surname group have large numbers of matches at 67 markers. One has over 500 and one has over 200 (and they match each other).

I talked the 200 match person into testing for 111 markers. She did (via her brother) and Iwarned her the 200 matches might drop a lot. It sure did. She (her brother) went from over 200 down to just 3 and they are 10 markers off.

Nor do the three names left sound very Scottish.

How does one explain dropping from 200 matches to 3 weak matches? I thought 67 markers was considered rock-solid (albeit they were 63/67 or less).

Should the 200 matches at 67 still be considered matches, but just another 8 or more generations further back?

What should be the next step?

Would the Big Y be helpful here? I dont understand Big Y in terms of genealogical timeframes and matching very well so I really dont know what to tell her.

thks

I think that they could be related between 800 and 1350 years. 67 marker matches are good matches but the high number suggests an endogenous population. I think that is seen a lot among Jewish people.