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How many matches is average?

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  • How many matches is average?

    Ok, I've my husband's line results for awhile (12 markers) and I know from previous testing elsewhere that he is L-21. He came out with 348 matches at 12 markers, which I thought was ridiculously low for L-21. I've since learned that 348 matches is quite high, even for L-21. I'm waiting for results for the 37 marker test and am curious what to expect.

    I searched my husband's surname at 12 markers - no match. Ancestral matches are all over the map but in terms of numbers, it looks like England:

    Exact match/total:
    England 58
    United Kingdom 25
    Scotland 15
    Ireland 11

    Would this mean he has "English modal"? His father's line was supposed to trace to Ireland but I started getting the feeling it was English based on evidence I was finding. Would this confirm my suspicions or is it too early to tell? If he get's no surname matches at 12, what are the chances he'd get a surname match at more markers?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Littlest bit View Post
    Ok, I've my husband's line results for awhile (12 markers) and I know from previous testing elsewhere that he is L-21. He came out with 348 matches at 12 markers, which I thought was ridiculously low for L-21. I've since learned that 348 matches is quite high, even for L-21. I'm waiting for results for the 37 marker test and am curious what to expect.

    I searched my husband's surname at 12 markers - no match. Ancestral matches are all over the map but in terms of numbers, it looks like England:

    Exact match/total:
    England 58
    United Kingdom 25
    Scotland 15
    Ireland 11

    Would this mean he has "English modal"? His father's line was supposed to trace to Ireland but I started getting the feeling it was English based on evidence I was finding. Would this confirm my suspicions or is it too early to tell? If he get's no surname matches at 12, what are the chances he'd get a surname match at more markers?
    Sounds like he could have a haplotype close to the WAMH (Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype).

    You'll find out much more from your 37-marker upgrade, and an upgrade to 67 markers would be even better.
    Last edited by Stevo; 23 July 2012, 07:00 AM.

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    • #3
      Thank you for your quick response Stevo. I read the link to WAMH and then tried to look for the badge...I don't see it anywhere. My husband has 2 differences with WAMH: DYS385a and DYS439.

      STR husband...WAMH

      DYS393 13...13
      DYS390 24...24
      DYS19** 14...14
      DYS391 11...11
      DYS385(a-b) 12-14...11-14
      DYS426 12...12
      DYS388 12...12
      DYS439 11...12
      DYS389I 13...13
      DYS392 13...13
      DYS389II*** 29...29

      I'm really looking forward to getting the 37 marker results now.

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      • #4
        I'm a fairly common haplotype (See signature below) and have zero exact matches at twelve markers and only one at a distance of one that vanishes at higher marker counts. I'm upgrading to 111 and hoping I'll start to close the distance to some of my matches instead of continuing to see it widen.

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        • #5
          Being someone (an L21) who has virtually no matches I have tried to get a sense of the "amounts of matching" that people expirence. I think for some it depends on nationaility. A UK type nationaility probably has greater odds of getting matches as compared to Continental L21's like myself (French) . I think it's all a matter of who is in the database. French/Germans/Italians/Spanish are not well represented.

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          • #6
            I'm in a different haplogroup than the OP (E1b1b1a1b), but have 29 exact matches at 12 markers, and 402 at 12 minus one step. But it falls off dramatically at 25 and 37 markers. At 25 exact I have two matches. At 25-1 another two matches, and at 25-2 four matches. At 37 I have no exact matches, two at two steps, and one at three steps.

            My large number of matches at 12 markers is likely due to being in the most popular E1b subclade - V13.

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            • #7
              Ok, I have to revise my numbers a bit as I'm still figuring this out:

              -299 Exact matches
              -350 1 Step

              Still when I look at Ancestral origins, Genetic distance -1, shows 552 in England, 373 in Ireland, 246 in UK, and 227 in Scotland (amongst many others at lesser numbers!)

              Either way, it's clear that my husband's line is particularly gifted in matches compared to others. Other than being common, and not an exact match for WAMH, is there anything I can gleen from this?

              Thanks!

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              • #8
                Hi Littlest Bit,

                My grandfather (E-M84+, German) has 0 12-marker matches, 2 2-step 25 marker matches, and the same 2 at 3-steps on 37 markers. Luckily they are both same surnamed men. Beyond them however, the closest matches are on ysearch at 4+ steps on 12 markers.


                My father on the other hand (R-M222+) has
                509 exact matches
                452 1-step matches

                Once he gets up to 25 markers it drops quickly though,
                0 exact matches
                21 1-step matches

                And moving on to 37 markers,
                9 4-step matches (nothing closer)

                Finally at 67 markers,
                6 6-step matches
                30 7-step matches


                So, it's really quite variant in normal # of matches But no matter what, the more markers tested, the better.

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                • #9
                  I don't yet have any matches at 12 markers or more. I have two at 8 markers at ysearch. Haplogroup is I2b1*

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                  • #10
                    I have 46 exact matches at 12 marker. 132 12 marker matches at 1 step. I have no matches at 25, 37. My ydna is old and rare, not to mention it's non-European so I guess I shouldn't expect many matches.


                    Really the amount of matches depends on the rarity of the Haplogroup, the age, and where it originates.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Littlest bit View Post

                      Would this mean he has "English modal"? His father's line was supposed to trace to Ireland but I started getting the feeling it was English based on evidence I was finding. Would this confirm my suspicions or is it too early to tell? If he get's no surname matches at 12, what are the chances he'd get a surname match at more markers?
                      I think it would help to know what surname your husband is. He may be via a surname with hot-spots in a particular location. Also, as I'm sure you're aware, there was a lot of traffic between England & Ireland & vice versa.
                      Cheers,
                      Bob

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                      • #12
                        This is really amazing how few matches some people get - appears to be one part commonality/one part data base. So, I would say my husbands would be gifted for both.

                        My husband's surname is Frawley which is not very common, like I said no matches here so far and only 3 other's at 23andme. My husband is somewhat unique in that he is an American with no "colonial" - all recent immigrants. He is half Polish from his mother, and on his father's side, a German grandmother and (supposedly) Irish grandfather. But his Ancestry Finder made me wonder:

                        UK .5%
                        Poland .4% (Polish suffer from a small data base too)
                        Ireland .2%
                        Germany .2% (another data base problem)

                        That UK seems really high for someone who doesn't have recent ancestors from there. To put it into perspective, my grandpa's mother was English, born in London and his UK is 1% as is his daughter's (1%)! As for my grandpa's mom, I've traced her paternal line back to Germany so perhaps that might account for my grandpa's very low UK. But still, how to account for my husband's .5%? I started to wonder if his Irish grandfather was perhaps English instead...which is what prompted me to do STR testing.

                        The name Frawley is pretty clearly Irish in origin based on this map, but clearly there's been some movement:
                        http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...5at61757AM.png

                        When his 12 marker test came in so heavily weighted towards England as opposed to Ireland, I wondered if that was yet another clue that his Irish grandfather may have deeper roots in England????

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                        • #13
                          I have always had my doubts that autosomal DNA could distinguish between any of the UK's component countries. My great grandfather believed himself to be Scottish yet all my mathches are Irish ( those that arn't French anyway) I think for hundreds of years people from Ireland / Scotland moved to England for work / Scottish colonies in Ireland existed ( etc. etc. ). I think for the most part it is far to mixed to know. What matters most in cases such as my ggrandfather is with whom they identified with.

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                          • #14
                            Update:

                            Results came in for 13-25 but 26-37 failed and is being rerun. Looks like those and DF-13 will come around the same time (hopefully).

                            At 25 matches things changed:

                            -When I click on Matches, there are 17 matches at 25 markers. 3 list the haplogroup as R1b1a2a1a1b4h, 3 private, the rest nothing.

                            -Under Ancestral Origins, only Ireland, Scotland, and United States. All are genetic distance -2. 10 were from Ireland, so more Irish modal?

                            Reading other threads here, 12 to 25 marker matches don't seem to mean that much. I still wonder, though, if the only matches at 25 markers are minus 2 steps (2 different marker results, all else the same?) then could I expect it to get better at 37 markers? The best I can hope for is at least one of the 2 step matches to continue to match, right?

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                            • #15
                              How to find DF 13 result????

                              Ok, this is embarrassing It says the DF 13 test is completed but I can't figure out how to find the result. What do I have to click on????? Thanks!

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