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absolutely NO matches at any level (even 4 step distance)

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  • absolutely NO matches at any level (even 4 step distance)

    Hello,

    Yesterday I received my results from the 37 marker Y-DNA test. At the Family Tree DNA database I don't match anybody in a wide range (for example 12 Markers + 4 step distance: No results found at this level of testing). It is possible or do I make a mistake during searching? Ftdna is doing the backbone test, but the Whit Athey algorithm clearly predicts haplogroup R1b at a probability of 100% (most common haplogroup in western Europe), why I don't match anybody then?

    Here you can see my DYS values (are they so unusual?) and information about my paternal ancestry:
    http://www.ysearch.org/search_view.a...wuid=WMDCM&p=1

  • #2
    Originally posted by Berliner View Post
    ....the Whit Athey algorithm clearly predicts haplogroup R1b at a probability of 100% (most common haplogroup in western Europe), why I don't match anybody then?
    No one close to your ydna has tested yet. Only a small number of the masses of people have been tested. 227,929 Y-DNA records is pretty small compared to the world population or even the European/US/Canada population.
    Last edited by thetick; 27 March 2012, 07:36 PM.

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    • #3
      Have you searched through any other databases yet (GeneTree, Ancestry, SMGF)?

      I really don't know enough about haplotypes to give you an educated guess about this, so please take everything I say with a grain of salt (or four or five) until someone smart can give their input, but just from looking at the haplotypes in the R1b group, it looks like your DYS385 values (13, 13) could be off-modal. Your DYS439 value (13) also appears to be rather uncommon. Since these two markers are in the first panel, they could have eliminated any possible matches before the second and third panels even came in. Again, please wait for someone to verify this.

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      • #4
        Also, don't feel too lonely. At 37 markers, I only have eight matches, but they're all six steps away. You're definitely not the only person with few or no useful matches.

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        • #5
          Are you from Germany? Also if you have a Ancestry account you can manually inter your results there and might find a match.

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          • #6
            37 marker matches

            Be prepared to be disappointed even when you do get a good 37 marker match. I am working with a cousin of mine trying to get a handle on my maternal line and even with very good matches you don't get much help or feedback from those matches. My cousin has 5 36/37 matches. Two with his surname, 1 with a surname that is associated with his and 2 surnames that are quite different. One very good match is being difficult with trying to be constructive and I wonder why they had their DNA tested at all. We also have several 35/37 matches with the same surname but to date no good paper trails to link our brickwall with any of them.

            The process is going to be long with a lot of twists and turns. I think right now DNA testing is a good option, but there are a lot of flaws and too many variables to really pin down the MRCA.

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            • #7
              On a positive note, if you have no matches at 12 markers, you may have a rather rare haplotype. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, in that if & when you do finally match someone, there will be a very good chance that the two of you share the same, unusual heritage.

              People with scads of matches frequently can't tell authentic cousins from background noise.

              Timothy Peterman

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              • #8
                Thanks for the quick answers! I read many here have no exact matches, but I was surprised to have absolutely no matches at any level and at any distance.

                Originally posted by T E Peterman View Post
                On a positive note, if you have no matches at 12 markers, you may have a rather rare haplotype. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, in that if & when you do finally match someone, there will be a very good chance that the two of you share the same, unusual heritage.
                I think my heritage isn't too unusual. I’m German and we are very well represented in the FTDNA database (for example, German Americans are the largest ethnic group in the United States). An explanation might be that my paternal line is from East Prussia. The Old Prussian died out or were rather assimilated into the Germans during the 13th and 17th centuries. Maybe my Haplotype is so rare because it belongs to the few Old Prussians who survived.
                Last edited by Berliner; 28 March 2012, 08:33 AM.

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                • #9
                  Looking at the marker values in your ysearch account, you have 5 off-modal values in your first 12 markers. That right there explains why you have no matches of genetic distance 4 or closer. No one has enough of your off-modal markers to match you even at 8/12.

                  These are your off-modal markers with the modal for R1b in parentheses:

                  DYS385a-b=13-13 (11-14)
                  DYS439=13 (12)
                  DYS389i=14 (13)
                  DYS389ii=30 (29)

                  Have you considered an upgrade to 67 markers or the deep clade test for SNPs? That may seem like a silly suggestion since you have no close matches. But I have a suspicion that you are a member of the L48/null 425 cluster, which is a fairly large part of R1b-U106. I base this on your off-modal values for DYS447 (24) and DYS460 (10). Other than a null 425 (which the upgrade to 67 markers would tell you), these are two of the off-modal values associated with the L48/null 425 cluster.

                  The cluster does have a good deal of representation in the Low Countries, British Isles and Germany. I checked my spreadsheet for the cluster and there are 6 members with DYS385a-b=11-13 - you've probably had a mutation in your paternal line from 11-13 to 13-13. And 3 of these 6 have German ancestry.

                  You might want to wait on the deep clade test until FTDNA adds new SNPs to it, including Z326, which defines the L48/null 425 cluster. It's expected that FTDNA will update its tree and add SNPs to the deep clade test in the near future. In the meantime, you might want to consider upgrading to 67 markers.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by EdwardRHill View Post
                    Are you from Germany? Also if you have a Ancestry account you can manually inter your results there and might find a match.
                    Why I wrote Germany and how I did not see it tell now I'll never know. Wait more to come anyway the reason for that question was because I was looking a the Eurogenes K12b tread and people were writing about the Middle Eastern results popping up for some of us and that it was because there was some missing samples from some parts of Europe and Germany and someother Northern countries were mentioned.

                    I don't think the German American is the same because of the mixing. I myself have German Ancestry along with English, Irish, French, Dutch, Scottish, and Welch and that because the tree goes back to the 1600's. I read something not to long ago. I think it was about some human remains found near a German town. It turn out that people from that town were matching up with the remains which had been there for thousands of years showing people from the area had a connection to the area for a very long time.

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                    • #11
                      Consider joining a geographical or lineage Y project. That will not guarantee you a match but will place you in a research community of others with your ancestry interests.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
                        Looking at the marker values in your ysearch account, you have 5 off-modal values in your first 12 markers. That right there explains why you have no matches of genetic distance 4 or closer. No one has enough of your off-modal markers to match you even at 8/12.

                        These are your off-modal markers with the modal for R1b in parentheses:

                        DYS385a-b=13-13 (11-14)
                        DYS439=13 (12)
                        DYS389i=14 (13)
                        DYS389ii=30 (29)

                        Have you considered an upgrade to 67 markers or the deep clade test for SNPs? That may seem like a silly suggestion since you have no close matches. But I have a suspicion that you are a member of the L48/null 425 cluster, which is a fairly large part of R1b-U106. I base this on your off-modal values for DYS447 (24) and DYS460 (10). Other than a null 425 (which the upgrade to 67 markers would tell you), these are two of the off-modal values associated with the L48/null 425 cluster.

                        The cluster does have a good deal of representation in the Low Countries, British Isles and Germany. I checked my spreadsheet for the cluster and there are 6 members with DYS385a-b=11-13 - you've probably had a mutation in your paternal line from 11-13 to 13-13. And 3 of these 6 have German ancestry.

                        You might want to wait on the deep clade test until FTDNA adds new SNPs to it, including Z326, which defines the L48/null 425 cluster. It's expected that FTDNA will update its tree and add SNPs to the deep clade test in the near future. In the meantime, you might want to consider upgrading to 67 markers.
                        Thank you very much, your explanation was very informative. I will order the Deep Clade test (maybe upgrading to 67 markers too).

                        In the Y- Search database I have a match with GEHX7 which is named as a candidate for R1b1a2a1a1b5*. Maybe I do belong to this haplogroup, but the L48/null 425 cluster is also a possible candidate, of course.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Berliner View Post
                          Thank you very much, your explanation was very informative. I will order the Deep Clade test (maybe upgrading to 67 markers too).

                          In the Y- Search database I have a match with GEHX7 which is named as a candidate for R1b1a2a1a1b5*. Maybe I do belong to this haplogroup, but the L48/null 425 cluster is also a possible candidate, of course.
                          Wait until you've heard that FTDNA has updated their haplotree and the deep clade test. I'm fairly certain that at that point Z326 will be in the deep clade test. As I mentioned, Z326 is a new SNP that defines the L48/null 425 cluster.

                          The updated tree/deep clade test will be out sometime this year, with a good chance for this spring, perhaps as soon as next month. If you do turn out positive for U106 or downstream SNPs in the deep clade test, please join the R1b-U106 Project, of which I'm a co-administrator. The project website is linked to in my signature below.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
                            These are your off-modal markers with the modal for R1b in parentheses:

                            DYS385a-b=13-13 (11-14)

                            ...
                            That's a good observation. Berliner, why don't you try omitting DYS385a-b in queries at http://smgf.org and http://ysearch.org and see if you get some matches.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Berliner View Post
                              (for example, German Americans are the largest ethnic group in the United States)
                              This is frequently stated but is almost certainly incorrect. The very large number of English immigrants in the founding populations makes this unlikely. Consider that Families with German origins held on to this identity longer -- until WW1 there was no reason not too -- while those with English background became "American" with the birth of the new country as distinct from an English colony so as not to identify with the state of George III. Nevertheless immigration from England continued strongly throughout the 19th century. A more realistic estimate is that German might be second behind English, or possibly third behind Irish as well.

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