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Balkan R1A1A

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  • Balkan R1A1A

    Hi Everyone,

    Curious if anyone else here have traced their ancestry to the Balkans (Ex-Yu)? I have traced my surname back to 1750's Croatia although have a very uncommon surname, Kendjelic.

    So, any others out there?

  • #2
    All four of my grandparents came from southern Poland, but...

    1) My yDNA haplogroup is I2a-Dinaric, and my closest match so far is a Bulgarian. I suspect that my patrilineal ancestor migrated across the Carpathians in the 1400s, before "the second serfdom" tied everyone down.

    2) Recently, at a restaurant, the waiter asked my ethnicity. (Please understand that in the United States, no service employee dares ask such a question, for fear of appearing to discriminate or otherwise giving offense.) When I calmly replied that I was of 100% Polish ancestry, he in turn explained that he had come to the US from Bosnia in the 1990s during the war, and that my appearance very much reminded him of someone back home.

    I can only suspect that the I2a-Dinaric of my patrilineage still shows, after all these centuries.
    Last edited by lgmayka; 16th March 2012, 10:25 AM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by lgmayka View Post
      All four of my grandparents came from southern Poland, but...

      1) My yDNA haplogroup is I2a-Dinaric, and my closest match so far is a Bulgarian. I suspect that my patrilineal ancestor migrated across the Carpathians in the 1400s, before "the second serfdom" tied everyone down.

      2) Recently, at a restaurant, the waiter asked my ethnicity. (Please understand that in the United States, no service employee dares ask such a question, for fear of appearing to discriminate or otherwise giving offense.) When I calmly explained that I was of 100% Polish ancestry, he in turn explained that he had come to the US from Bosnia in the 1990s during the war, and that my appearance very much reminded him of someone back home.

      I can only suspect that the I2a-Dinaric of my patrilineage still shows, after all these centuries.
      Thats pretty cool. Maybe we should start an R1A1A picture thread where all of us post a picture of our face. That would be interesting.

      I believe I2A is the most frequent in Bosnia, Croatia and Serbia and R1A1A as second most frequent. As my father is half Italian and half Croat, our appearance is somewhat of a mix. I look most like my dad although not as dark skinned. A story we think is pretty funny; my dad was travelling across the the border from Mexico into Arizona and was stopped and spoke to in spanish by border patrol as they though he was trying to cross illegally. He is really dark skinned for both a far northern Italian and a Croat.

      We are both also plagued with the wonderful large convex noses. The "roman" and "jewish" nose stereotype fits us perfect.

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      • #4
        23andMe has me as R1a1a, my sample for the FTDNA Y-DNA67 will be in the mail today. My best guess based on the paper trail is that my fathers line came from France to the US in the early 18th century. That isn't a very good fit for R1a1a though so I'm hoping to get some more clues from the FTDNA test.

        I do wonder how much of an influence the Y DNA has on our appearance. I have pictures of my direct male line 2x great grand father and while he appears much shorter than me there is certainly a noticiable resemblence in the facial area.

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        • #5
          I do wonder how much of an influence the Y DNA has on our appearance. I have pictures of my direct male line 2x great grand father and while he
          There are only a few genes on the Y , so no, it does not influence appearance .

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Brunetmj View Post
            There are only a few genes on the Y , so no, it does not influence appearance .
            So mtDNA is where your appearance comes from? New to me.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Brunetmj View Post
              There are only a few genes on the Y , so no, it does not influence appearance .
              Not in itself; but yDNA is generally some indication of the genetic heritage of one's ancestors. A solitary Y chromosome rarely survives alone for very long, so the survival of a yDNA lineage typically indicates the current or former presence of a community--especially if that survival occurs during a period when the population was not expanding.

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              • #8
                Well humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes . The first 22 pairs are were most of the genes which determine what our looks are ( and everything else about us). 50% comes from your mother and 50% from your father. The 23rd pair are the sex determining genes - the X and Y. Females are XX and males are XY. This Y chromosone because it is relativity simple makes it easier to map out.

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                • #9
                  But the Y chromosome, barring mutations is identical going back many generations to every other Y chromosome along a male line. I share 1/1024th of the rest of my DNA with any given 8x great grandparent. The Y chromosome I share 100% with my direct line male ancestor in that generation. Go back fifteen generations and the same holds true. Mutations change things over time but its my understanding that it takes a lot of generations on average to get significant drift.

                  The Y may still have little or no impact on how we look though. It's interesting to speculate though and we don't know everything at this point.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 1_mke View Post
                    But the Y chromosome, barring mutations is identical going back many generations to every other Y chromosome along a male line. I share 1/1024th of the rest of my DNA with any given 8x great grandparent. The Y chromosome I share 100% with my direct line male ancestor in that generation. Go back fifteen generations and the same holds true. Mutations change things over time but its my understanding that it takes a lot of generations on average to get significant drift.

                    The Y may still have little or no impact on how we look though. It's interesting to speculate though and we don't know everything at this point.
                    Very interesting. I appreciate the info as I am still learning.

                    It seems like not many people from the balkans test their DNA unfortunately.

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                    • #11
                      R1a1a is not very specific. That is SNP M-198. You might want to test for M-417, the next stage. Then SNP Z283 (Europe) or Z93 for regions to the east (Middle East, Ashkenazi Jews, etc). Lots of information at the R1a1 and sub-clades Project, including interesting tree charts.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
                        R1a1a is not very specific. That is SNP M-198. You might want to test for M-417, the next stage. Then SNP Z283 (Europe) or Z93 for regions to the east (Middle East, Ashkenazi Jews, etc). Lots of information at the R1a1 and sub-clades Project, including interesting tree charts.

                        http://www.familytreedna.com/public/r1a/default.aspx


                        One tree chart is on the front page; just scroll down.

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                        • #13
                          I appreciate the response. I am actually already in the R1A1A and Subclades group and am currently awaiting a test result for SNP P278 (Carpathian 3) as I seem to match those who have tested positive. I should receive the results by the end of next month.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by kendjelic View Post
                            I appreciate the response. I am actually already in the R1A1A and Subclades group and am currently awaiting a test result for SNP P278 (Carpathian 3) as I seem to match those who have tested positive. I should receive the results by the end of next month.
                            A Carpathian geographical origin sounds interesting. My maternal grandfather was born in Austria (Austro-Hingary Empire) in 1891. I keep wondering what his haplogroup was (no male descendants).

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
                              A Carpathian geographical origin sounds interesting. My maternal grandfather was born in Austria (Austro-Hingary Empire) in 1891. I keep wondering what his haplogroup was (no male descendants).
                              Sorry to hear. That's always tough knowing that you can't find out. I recently talked my Great Uncle (100% Italian) into testing with 23andMe, he is the only male here in the states from that side. I still do not know my Maternal side as my mom was adopted but just recently contacted her biological mother whom I am actually meeting for the first time today. Should be interesting.
                              Last edited by kendjelic; 21st March 2012, 11:55 AM.

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