What do we really know about I1d designation?

[Ritch]

There has been discussions about this topic, but I would like to set up a more concise definition of about the I1d designation.

I keep coming across many different conclusions what it means to be I1d (L22+ P109-) and the possible region varieties depending on the weight of different DYS markers.

The I1d appears to ill-defined...or maybe it is the plethora of differing and vague discussion.

Anyone have some recent and well-defined information about this newer designation?


Here is my 67 Y marker per FTDNA
I1d (L21+ P109-) Norse

393 390 19(394) 391 385a/385b 426 388 439 389-1 392 389-2
13 23 14 10 (14 14) 11 14 11 12 11 28

458 459a/459b 455 454 447 437 448 449 464a/464b/464c/464d
15 (8 9) 8 11 23 16 20 27 (12 14 15 16)

460 GATAH4 YCAIIa/YCAIIb 456 607 576 570 CDYa/CDYb 442 438
11 10 (19 21) 14 14 17 21 (34 37) 12 10

531 578 395S1a/395S1b 590 537 641 472 406S1 511
11 8 (15 15) 8 11 10 8 9 10

425 413a/413b 557 594 436 490 534 450 444 481 520 446
12 (23 25) 16 10 12 12 15 8 13 26 20 12

617 568 487 572 640 492 565
13 11 12 11 12 12 11

[s trangsrud]

The designation of I1d means testing positive for the SNP L22. Often the L22 test is not needed, if someone is DYS462=13, DYS511=10, & DYS390=23.

I1d is more common in the more northerly areas of Europe. It is 50% of the I1 in Sweden and more than 50% of the I1 in Finland and Norway.

I1 researcher, Ken Nordtvedt, has posted charts and tables on I1 & I2 at:
http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net/
Table of modal haplotypes:
http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net/FounderHaps.xls
Estimated Ages of various haplogroups & subclades:
http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net/MRCA%20Ages.ppt

Ken's Modal Haplotypes table, with markers in FTDNA order; and brief summary of I1 :
http://dgmweb.net/DNA/General/Hg-I-s...NA-order.shtml

I1d-Bothnia is about 3/4 of the I1 in Finland. I1d-uN2 has its highest concentration in Norway.

[Ritch]

I1d

I was tested for L22 and P109 (L22+ P109-). My Y was DYS511=10, & DYS390=23, but the test did not cover DYS462.

What I can conclude from all of the testing is the Norse designation. I was aware of the Scandinavian connection to I1d. Norse designation is non-specific (to me at least). Sweden/Norway/Finland is the area, I was wondering if it was more specific than that.

Thanks for the links, I will revisit Nordtvedt's information.

[Ritch]

After review...

After looking at the Excel worksheet concerning I1d and the different weight of each DYS, I can see it is very clear I am I1d Norse. According to his .ppt, the estimated age is 3000 years which other more specific branches sprouted from.

I am still left wondering if the small differences in the "non-weighted" DYS can be the difference in one region to the next.

[s trangsrud]

What countries are your closest matches from? Check your FTDNA page, Ysearch, and the I1 Project.

I1d can be found in most European countries. You might not be able to pin-point any specific area/country, until you find some close matches.

[Ritch]

Specifics

The FTDNA page for country of origin is not useful. The results draw no conclusion...and if they did then it would be where an individual thinks their most recent ancestor is from. On the 12 marker, I got Scandinavia area (Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Finland and Iceland)...any higher markers showed nothing over 0.2%. Probably not enough I1d's to make any real statistical outcome.

Ysearch is pretty much the same animal and result for me.

I did join the I1 and I1d projects. Maybe there will be a pattern. My problem is my surname does not match up with similar surnames...not in the same ballpark.

From an email with Nordtvedt, he basically said that it was Scandinavia with the highest concentrations in southern Sweden. I know it would be faulty reasoning for an individual to assume being from southern Sweden without something tangible to back up claim. Unfortunately I do not know of any family connections to the region. I was hoping that some other pieces of the 67 markers would further define into a much smaller region. Maybe one day...

Thanks for your help.

What countries are your closest matches from? Check your FTDNA page, Ysearch, and the I1 Project.

I1d can be found in most European countries. You might not be able to pin-point any specific area/country, until you find some close matches.