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Geography of R1b

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  • #16
    Central European R1b

    Could you like to have a look at two of our two R1b's and see what you think based on the STRs ? On Y-search, they are E2GWX and UW94R. The first has been tested to 37 markers. I've done the paper trail for both of them in church records back to the 1750's.

    Beth

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Beth Long
      Could you like to have a look at two of our two R1b's and see what you think based on the STRs ? On Y-search, they are E2GWX and UW94R. The first has been tested to 37 markers.
      E2GWX has many neighbors 8 steps away at 37 markers, but no closer:

      http://www.ysearch.org/search_result...ting_marker=29

      And at 25 markers, a couple neighbors 3 steps away, but again no closer:

      http://www.ysearch.org/search_result...smatches_max=3

      And all these neighbors are all in the British Isles.

      Offhand, my wild guess is Celtic heritage. His ancestor stayed in central-eastern Europe while others went on to Scotland et al. You might ask John McEwan to attempt to place him into a cluster.

      http://www.geocities.com/mcewanjc/

      UW94R has an exact match in Germany, and otherwise no one within 1 step at 12 markers:

      http://www.ysearch.org/search_result...smatches_max=1

      The German match actually has a Polish surname, and so may be Slavic farther back. But may be something else farther back still.

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      • #18
        Another R1b from Bukovina

        Originally posted by lgmayka
        E2GWX has many neighbors 8 steps away at 37 markers, but no closer:

        http://www.ysearch.org/search_result...ting_marker=29

        And at 25 markers, a couple neighbors 3 steps away, but again no closer:

        http://www.ysearch.org/search_result...smatches_max=3

        And all these neighbors are all in the British Isles.

        Offhand, my wild guess is Celtic heritage. His ancestor stayed in central-eastern Europe while others went on to Scotland et al. You might ask John McEwan to attempt to place him into a cluster.

        http://www.geocities.com/mcewanjc/

        UW94R has an exact match in Germany, and otherwise no one within 1 step at 12 markers:

        http://www.ysearch.org/search_result...smatches_max=1

        The German match actually has a Polish surname, and so may be Slavic farther back. But may be something else farther back still.

        Thank you again; I will follow up with John McEwan.

        There is a third R1b in the project. I didn't mention him initially because there was a "father unknown" event in the 1850s making it possible that the Y-DNA came from someone someone outside the group (though this was a rare event in this subculture). This person (7W7MB) just got markers 13-37 back yesterday, and it's interesting that though he had over 200 exact matches at 12 markers, ALL of them fell away with the additional markers.

        Our project aims to test 130 surnames found among the Bukovina Hungarians (so far, we have 21 of them). It will be interesting to see if other R1bs turn up, and what their profiles look like.

        Thanks again,

        Beth

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Beth Long
          Could you like to have a look at two of our two R1b's and see what you think based on the STRs ? On Y-search, they are E2GWX and UW94R. The first has been tested to 37 markers. I've done the paper trail for both of them in church records back to the 1750's.

          Beth
          Beth, I think it would be worth doing the SNP test from EthnoAncestry, the R1b FT Upgrade, for E2GWX. This checks for the presence of S21 or S28. Or order the advanced test from FTDNA for DYS464X first, at $25; if E2GWX gets a 15c-15c-17c-17c result, then it would be relevant to know that the only two men known to have been SNP tested who had the c-c-c-c pattern (instead of the more common c-c-c-g) both turned out to be S28+

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          • #20
            Do I get the award for fathest away from any match with 11 off at 37? ...and only 2 are that close.

            scot

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            • #21
              Originally posted by fmoakes
              This may help:
              Y-DNA Haplogroup R1b and its Subclades

              R M207 (UTY2), M306 (S1), S4, S8, S9
              • R* -
              • R1 M173
              R1b M343
              • • • R1b* -
              • • • R1b1 P25
              • • • • R1b1* -
              • • • • R1b1a M18
              • • • • R1b1b M73
              • • • • R1b1c M269, S3, S10, S13, S17
              • • • • • R1b1c* -
              • • • • • R1b1c1 M37
              • • • • • R1b1c2 M65
              • • • • • R1b1c3 M126
              • • • • • R1b1c4 M153
              • • • • • R1b1c5 M160
              • • • • • R1b1c6 SRY2627 (M167)
              • • • • • R1b1c7 M222
              • • • • • R1b1c8 P66
              • • • • • R1b1c9 S21
              • • • • • • R1b1c9* -
              • • • • • • R1b1c9a L1 (S26)
              • • • • • • R1b1c9b S29
              • • • • • R1b1c10 S28
              • • • • R1b1d M335
              M37, M65, M126 and M160 are rare markers which were discovered in Australia, Spain and Europeans, respectively.

              M153 originated in Spain and is observed among Latinos in the New World.

              SRY2627 (M167) also arose in Spain and is also observed in SW England and Ireland at very low frequencies.

              M222 has recently been shown by EthnoAncestry to mark the "Irish" subgroup of R1b, characterizing the series of Irish surnames associated with the Ui Neill lineage of Northwest Ireland (descendants of Niall of the Nine Hostages) and deeper relatives, including a significant proportion of people in the West of Scotland, via the Dalriadic migration.

              P66 was detected in a sample from Italy. It has only been observed once to date, although this marker has been tested much less often than the others.

              S21, is very common, approximately 25% of M269-carrying Western European males are in this group. The marker has been observed in males from many parts of Europe: Norway, Italy, Germany, England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Around 40% of men in Northern Holland carry the marker! S21 defines a subgroup in which there are two additional informative SNPs, S26 and S29 (see map popup). The “Frisian” group of R1b is S21+, as are many other subgroups.

              S26 is the SNP in the primer binding site responsible for the null allele at DYS439 which was first recognised by Leo Little. It is a subgroup of the S21 group and appears to have a concentration in England.

              S29 is also a subgroup of S21 and has so far only been seen in England, correlations with STR haplotypes indicate that this is likely a pre-Anglo-Saxon British type.

              S28 is the second most common subtype of R1b. Just under 10% of the M269-carrying Western European males are in this group. It has been observed in Greece, Italy, Switzerland, Germany, France, Poland, Norway and the Netherlands. It is also present in Scotland, Wales and England.

              This was compiled from various sources, ISOGG, FTDNA, Ethnoancestry,...
              Floyd Oakes
              Y-I1a
              mt-K1a
              Here's a link to a pdf map that reflects the geographical area of Europe certain subclades of R1b1 are predominately found.
              http://www.vizachero.com/images/R1bClades.pdf

              Cheers! JR

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Downer101
                I do wonder though, because there is R1a in my family tree, that whether the Scythians carried it over with them to the Slavs? Sarmatians were also know to have this DNA as well. As far as I know, the people of the Proto-Scythian culture were the first to tame the horse..
                How does anyone know who first tamed the horse? Isn't that like trying to figure out who first tamed the dog?

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