Got my Y-111 results, with not any match. I want to find my suclade and answers.

[Revolver]

I got my Y-111 results, with not even a single match at any level. My haplogroup is J-M267 confirmed. With that 111 markers Nevgen gives me J1-P58. I want to find my detailed subclade, more than just J-P58.

I joined J1 Haplogroup project, however. No one does grouping I guess, there are hundreds of people waiting to be grouped. I've been waiting for months in that group, no admin does anything. I want to find answers to my genealogical questions and if it is possible based on 111 markers, my detailed subclade and my paternal migration path.

My paternal ancestor is from South Europe (Bulgaria), there are many possibilities I guess.
Is my paternal ancestor;
1-) a j-p58 mediterranean farmer who gradually migrated towards Europe?
2-) a j-p58 arabic/semitic merchant who recently visited south Europe?
3-) a Bulgarian Turk who came from Anatolia, who is anatolian but not turkic?

Can you please find me how can I find answers to my questions, and if possible to find my definitive subclade with the migration path. What should I do with my 111 markers, other than upgrading Big-Y? Is there a way, that I can find answers with 111 markers?

thank you.

[Jim Barrett]

With all of the new privacy laws many admins have stopped supporting their projects and FTDNA has not been able to find replacements. Have you offered to work on the grouping of members?

Even if you had an exact Y-111 match who had Big-Y results you could not be sure you would have the same 'definitive subclade'. The only way to know is to test. You can order individual SNPs, SNP-Packs or Big-Y. At $39 per individual SNPs or $100+ per SNP-Pack it doesn't take long to go over the cost of Big-Y and you will not have gained the additional 600 STRs.

[Revolver]

With all of the new privacy laws many admins have stopped supporting their projects and FTDNA has not been able to find replacements. Have you offered to work on the grouping of members?

Even if you had an exact Y-111 match who had Big-Y results you could not be sure you would have the same 'definitive subclade'. The only way to know is to test. You can order individual SNPs, SNP-Packs or Big-Y. At $39 per individual SNPs or $100+ per SNP-Pack it doesn't take long to go over the cost of Big-Y and you will not have gained the additional 600 STRs.

Thank you. Probably I will order Big-Y in the future(maybe couple years later). Also I hope I won't have to send another sample, I already had troubles sending the first one.

I believe Big-Y will probably give me a new sub-clade. My STR values are too different from other J1 Group members. I count many kits genetic distances are 40 at least. The closest kits I found are 3 genetic distance in 12 STRs, and 40+ in 111 STRs. I tried so hard to group myself, its frustrating that I couldn't find any answer from even 111 STRs, other than finding out I'm J-P58. I want to group myself, can I do that? Or is there a way to group myself, or maybe I should contact the admins, they probably won't reply.

[mabrams]

Another way to get your deeper haplotype is to test at 23andMe, or LivingDNA. 23andMe is $99 for an Ancestry kit (no health). Living DNA is similar price, maybe a bit less.

Usually you will get a much deeper haplotype (not always!!!). You wont get individual Y matches, but since you are blank at Y111, that should not surprise you. You will get all the other reports from either site. mtDNA, autosomal matches, Ancestry etc

[Revolver]

Another way to get your deeper haplotype is to test at 23andMe, or LivingDNA. 23andMe is $99 for an Ancestry kit (no health). Living DNA is similar price, maybe a bit less.

Usually you will get a much deeper haplotype (not always!!!). You wont get individual Y matches, but since you are blank at Y111, that should not surprise you. You will get all the other reports from either site. mtDNA, autosomal matches, Ancestry etc

Thank you for your reply. I heard 23andme says "J-P58" for most J-m267 members. I already know I am J-P58. I still don't understand why can't I find something deeper than that with 111 markers. Is it possible to group me without matches, or do you need matches for grouping? How much genetic distance is okay for grouping?

[Jim Barrett]

I want to group myself, can I do that? Or is there a way to group myself, or maybe I should contact the admins, they probably won't reply.

Only Admins or maybe Co-Admins can group members of projects. The only way to find out if any of the admins will reply is to try contacting them. I believe there are three for the project.

[mabrams]

I am not sure that 23andMe says J-P58 for most J-M267. I only have one J-P58 in my 2500 matches. But on the 23andMe Phylotree, they only go three levels deeper at most, so its not 23andMe best developed branch.

Your other option for around $100 is a SNP Pack for J-M267. Tests 175 Key SNPs. SNP Packs are usually pretty efficient and drill down many levels. But you dont get matches or other features.

FTDNA has 4234 branches under J-P58, so that is a very deep tree. A BigY will navigate to your true terminal SNP. I dont know how many levels the SNP Pack will go down.

As a policy, FTDNA will not issue an Advanced Y SNP haplotype based upon a prediction from a STR test, even if Y111.

[vmkiili]

I got my Y-111 results, with not even a single match at any level. My haplogroup is J-M267 confirmed. With that 111 markers Nevgen gives me J1-P58. I want to find my detailed subclade, more than just J-P58.

Did you choose "Subclades of J" from the Nevgen's menu? However, if everyone is 40 markers away from you, it means that everyone is very distant and it may be hard to find out your subclade from markers. In my case Nevgen guessed right my 4000 year old subclade with 5% confidence. With Big Y I got 3000 years old haplogroup. Nearest kits are about 28 markers away from me.

[Revolver]

Did you choose "Subclades of J" from the Nevgen's menu? However, if everyone is 40 markers away from you, it means that everyone is very distant and it may be hard to find out your subclade from markers. In my case Nevgen guessed right my 4000 year old subclade with 5% confidence. With Big Y I got 3000 years old haplogroup. Nearest kits are about 28 markers away from me.

Thank you so much, I didn't know Nevgen has a detailed subclade option. I tried it now, unfortunately it gives as "unsupported subclade", but I got almost 40 probablity score, is that enough? I am copying what I get, again, thank you so much. I got some answers thanks to you.

probablity fitness fitness2

1	J1a >> P58>> FGC11> FGC3723	0.07	38.57	0.69
2	J1a >> FGC11>> FGC4415 >> FGC4421	0	34.48	0.53
3	J1a >> P58>> YSC76>> FGC15940> ZS1711	0	34.34	0.61
4	J1a >> P58>> YSC76>> FGC8223> FGC8216	0	34.28	0.57
5	J1a >> P58>> L858>> Z640> BY74	0	34.23	0.6
6	J1a >> P58>> YSC76>> FGC8223>> BY66> ZS1602	0	33.78	0.5
7	J1a >> P58>> YSC76>> FGC8223	0	33.6	0.53
8	J1a >> P58>> FGC11>> FGC1696>> FGC5	0	33.12	0.51
9	J1a >> P58>> FGC11>> BY4	0	32.41	0.53
10	J1a >> P58>> FGC11>> FGC8712	0	32.37	0.5
11	J1a >> FGC11>> FGC4415 >> FT350914	0	32.04	0.52
12	J1a >> P58>> YSC76>> FGC8223> ZS6056	0	31.8	0.45
13	J1a >> P58>> FGC11>> BY8	0	31.68	0.52
14	J1a >> P58>> YSC76>> FGC8223>> BY65>> ZS1559	0	31.6	0.5
15	J1a >> P58>> FGC11>> ZS4694	0	31.57	0.42
16	J1a >> P58>> YSC76>> FGC8223>> BY66> BY86	0	31.41	0.49
17	J1a >> P58>> FGC11>> FGC10588	0	31.32	0.42
18	J1a >> P58>> FGC11>> FGC1696>> FGC1713	0	31.11	0.48
19	J1a >> P58>> YSC76>> FGC15940> FGC15938	0	31.04	0.52
20	J1a >> P58>> FGC11>> FGC4453	0	30.82	0.48
21	J1a >> P58>> FGC11>> FGC1696> FGC7	0	30.6	0.48
22	J1a >> FGC11>> FGC4415	0	30.12	0.5
23	J1a >> FGC11>> FGC4415 >> BY527	0	29.45	0.49
24	J1a >> P58>> FGC11>> FGC8812	0	29.26	0.45
25	J1a >> P58>> YSC76>> FGC8223>> BY65> BY89	0	28.89	0.4
26	J1a >> P58>> PF4874	0	28.83	0.49
27	J1a >> FGC11>> FGC4415 >> FGC10401	0	28.72	0.41
28	J1a >> P58>> FGC11>> FGC1696>> BY2	0	28	0.4
29	J1a >> P58>> FGC11>> Z18243	0	27.55	0.45
30	J1a >> FGC11>> FGC4415 >> ZS8222	0	27.35	0.38

Nevgen gave me these results. So as you can see, my results are FGC111 or YSC76, At least can I make sure I'm one of them? J-L858 is the branch they diverged, so I am 100% J-L858? What does it mean, can you help me? Nevgen gave me unsupported subclade but I gor 38 probablity score for FGC11->FGC3723 , do you think any of these results meaningful?

My paternal ancestor was born in Bulgaria, known to be a Bulgarian Turk. Can I conclude my patrilineal ancestry traces back to arabia, he was an arab or semitic phoenician?

bonus: I also tried YSEQ haplogroup predictor. it also says:

Haplogroup	Score	Score Bar
J1-FGC3723	0.159	███████████████ 100.0% Confidence
J1-FGC5	0.07	██████
R1a-Z280	0.049	████
I2a-M423	0.045	████
N1a-Z1936	0.043	████

Please FTDNA forum, help me interpret all of this

[vmkiili]

You got 0.07% probability. Almost 40 fitness, which is a different thing. Unfortunately it seems that your paternal line is undertested. It isn't possible predict your haplogroup very well, because there are no kits with Big Y nearby. I recommend that you get Big Y. Someone has to be the first one.

[Revolver]

You got 0.07% probability. Almost 40 fitness, which is a different thing. Unfortunately it seems that your paternal line is undertested. It isn't possible predict your haplogroup very well, because there are no kits with Big Y nearby. I recommend that you get Big Y. Someone has to be the first one.

can I say I am closer to FGC3723 than the other all known subclades? And that would mean my haplogroup subclade is closer to FGC3723, maybe my migration path is closer too?

Also, someone has to be the first one. Maybe FTDNA do my Big Y for free, or with a big discount?(to improve the database?) Believe me, if I could afford it now, I would take big y right away. My country's economy deteriorated these last months. I barely afforded for y111. Now our currency devaluated like 50% BESIDES I am a student

[Jim Barrett]

Also, someone has to be the first one. Maybe FTDNA do my Big Y for free, or with a big discount?(to improve the database?)

Or maybe you could join a project where donations could be made to help with the cost. Many projects have 'general funds'!

[Revolver]

Or maybe you could join a project where donations could be made to help with the cost. Many projects have 'general funds'!

Thanks, I didn't know project funds can be used like this.

However, many of them didn't even bother to group me (with other hundreds of people). I doubt they will help me for further testing