Y-STR matches - Suggestion ( Rather Useless tests )

[ferteth]

Hello,

I want to suggest to FTDNA team some kind of individualized readjustment regarding to Y-STR matching system.

I'm not happy in anyway with your private answer "Thank you for your email. The link below from our Learning Center will explain what we consider relevant matches. Due to privacy restrictions, we are unable to provide matches that do not meet these requirements. I apologize for any inconvenience."

At this time, I'm not a new customer as you can quickly see on my purchases and registration year.

I belong to the paternal lineage T-Y3836 and for most of us, if not all, your Y12, Y25 and Y37 tests are rather useless and doesn't fulfill its purpose.

It's not acceptable that my closest Y67 and Y111 match is not shown among my Y12, Y25 and Y37 matches "because privacy restrictions" doesn't makes any sense.

So, if my Y12, Y25 and Y37 markers only makes me able to see distant cousins (1300 yBP) but not closer ones, then you are showing me distant cousins but hidding me closer cousins at these three levels.

If FTDNA team give us a matching readjustment as a improved product or a update (through payment or not) it will give us the chance of makes your tests useful, after all we paid for them.

Actually I have closer paternal cousins hidden at Y12, Y25 and Y37. FTDNA need to find a SOLUTION to this issue or makes visible more marker distances on these test levels. At least as distances as our Y67 and Y111 closest matches are shown.

[John McCoy]

It seems to me the answer to the puzzle you have encountered is that there are not enough matching markers in the first 37 STR's to trigger a "match", but enough additional matches are found among the STR's above 37 to push the total score over the threshold for Y-67. If you can display the individual STR scores for your Y-67 matches and manually tally the differences for the Y-12, Y-25, and Y-37 panels, you should be able to confirm that this is what is happening. If that is the case, the issue is not about privacy settings.

[MoberlyDrake]

Are they talking about privacy restrictions they themselves have set? Or are they saying that your matches have set the privacy restrictions themselves? A match can set his own privacy settings so that he shows at a match at a certain no. of markers. A little silly, in my opinion unless you're trying to hide a non-paternity event. If a person doesn't want to be seen by matches, you'd think they'd choose not to be seen at the higher levels, rather than turning off the lower ones.

[rivergirl]

Most of my male relatives with 111 markers choose to turn off the 12, 25 and 37 markers as they are generally not relevant. They do not want endless emails from FTDNA stating you have a new 12 marker match etc..
They choose to concentrate on the 67 and 111 matches.

They can go and look at the 12, 25 and 37 matches when they want to by changing their settings.

It is their yDNA, their choice, not FTDNA or any other yDNA testers.

[MoberlyDrake]

I don't get messages saying my cousin has a new match very often, so I never thought of it as an annoyance. I suppose it could be if you get a lot of matches. Despite being R-M269, he only has 59 matches at 12 markers. Only 27 matches at 67 markers (most of those with a GD of 1 to 3 being Hamptons. None with a GD of 0 as there was a mutation between my cousin and his 3rd great-grandfather).

[ferteth]

Thank you all of you for your answers.

I find hard to believe that my Y3836 cousin choice to turn off matches for Y12, Y25 and Y37, when we have too few matches at any level.

But the sample is managed by a woman, lab collegue of him. So, could be possible that she turned off before receiving the results.

I find ridiculous this option. I can understand turn off receiving messages but Why turn off the three first match lists? my opinion is that this is nonsense.

I think we can't know for sure if this case belongs to turning off Y12, Y25, Y37 match lists or instead belongs to differences (9 at 111) (7 at 67) that are found on "unexpected order" through these first 3 levels.

[MoberlyDrake]

People should be able to opt out if receiving email for any level they want to without making themselves invisible to their matches at that level.

[KATM]

People should be able to opt out if receiving email for any level they want to without making themselves invisible to their matches at that level.

I may be dreaming, but I remember that FTDNA changed the policy, and this is now possible. I could have sworn that this was covered in a blog post, or a post elsewhere in the FTDNA forums when it was instituted, because it was such a long wished-for feature. But I can't seem to find anything mentioning it, either in the FTDNA forums or elsewhere, when I search. Perhaps someone else can point to a link when it was introduced.
According to pages in the Learning Center:

• For setting up notifications preferences: My Notification Preferences Page
• For setting up matching levels: My Privacy & Sharing Page, under "Matching Preferences"

It is no longer stated on either Learning Center page, or on the linked pages above within one's account, that one process is linked to the other. Meaning, when you specify in the Notification Preferences that you don't want to be notified about 12 and 25 marker Y-DNA matches, it does not affect your ability to see and be seen in match lists for those levels (if you have so specified in the Matching Preferences).

[Jim Barrett]

I may be dreaming, but I remember that FTDNA changed the policy, and this is now possible.

No you are not dreaming.

[DRNewcomb]

Most of my male relatives with 111 markers choose to turn off the 12, 25 and 37 markers as they are generally not relevant. They do not want endless emails from FTDNA stating you have a new 12 marker match etc..
They choose to concentrate on the 67 and 111 matches.

They can go and look at the 12, 25 and 37 matches when they want to by changing their settings.

It is their yDNA, their choice, not FTDNA or any other yDNA testers.

While I understand this, there's also my case. I have a couple of matches at Y-67 with a GD of 6 and 7. When I contact them, we are related in the late 17th & early 18th century. We should be a much closer GD but my matches seem be thrown off by a null DYS448 marker. I have 14 matches at Y-12, two of whom have my last name and two at Y-67 both of whom share my last name. I suspect that if I could fake that null DYS488 to a 19, I'd have more matches.

Anomalies like myself are why I'd like FTDNA to allow matching at greater GDs.

[Jim Barrett]

While I understand this, there's also my case. I have a couple of matches at Y-67 with a GD of 6 and 7. When I contact them, we are related in the late 17th & early 18th century. We should be a much closer GD but my matches seem be thrown off by a null DYS448 marker. I have 14 matches at Y-12, two of whom have my last name and two at Y-67 both of whom share my last name. I suspect that if I could fake that null DYS488 to a 19, I'd have more matches.

Anomalies like myself are why I'd like FTDNA to allow matching at greater GDs.

Using FTDNA's current method of calculating genetic distance, a null DYS448 would have to show a genetic distance of 20 (more or less) as a match at 25 markers. If they counted a null value as a single mutation it would be a genetic distance of 1. This would help you and not mess up everyone else.

[DRNewcomb]

Using FTDNA's current method of calculating genetic distance, a null DYS448 would have to show a genetic distance of 20 (more or less) as a match at 25 markers. If they counted a null value as a single mutation it would be a genetic distance of 1. This would help you and not mess up everyone else.

The FTDNA help desk told me that it only adds 1 to the GD calculation. Not sure I believe that or not. I have 14 matches at Y-12 and none from 25 to 37. The two matches I have a 67 are at GD 6 & 7 but are both known distant cousins.

[Jim Barrett]

The FTDNA help desk told me that it only adds 1 to the GD calculation. Not sure I believe that or not. I have 14 matches at Y-12 and none from 25 to 37. The two matches I have a 67 are at GD 6 & 7 but are both known distant cousins.

Having checked a few examples it appears I was wrong and they are correct. VERY GLAD to see they have made that change.

Are you in any projects (surname, Haplogroup, region) where you can compare yourself to others around you?

[The_Contemplator]

I think we can't know for sure if this case belongs to turning off Y12, Y25, Y37 match lists or instead belongs to differences (9 at 111) (7 at 67) that are found on "unexpected order" through these first 3 levels.

We can be sure which case. The setting that allows people to turn off matching at lower levels, does not actually hide them. It simply hides their first name and is no longer clickable. Only shows the surname with no way to contact that match. This feature was a result of FTDNA's older matching system. Notifications and matching were tied together. Only recently have they separated these two options. So those who had a ton of emails for say new Y12 matches, would turn that level off to cut the spam down. Their matches would still see them listed, but they wouldn't be able to contact them unless they matched at a higher level that was not blocked.

As for FTDNA's privacy explanation, they see it is that if someone does not match, then showing them in spite of that goes against their privacy. It also opens the door to give you false matches. If these matches have joined a project, you could join the same project and compare your STRs. This would show you where you differ exactly. Maybe even help you find others that barely don't match you.