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  • Question about DYS390

    Does anyone know where DYS390 at 23 came from? At 23 it doesn't match up to the AMH, but I don't know if the slight variation matters that much. I can't find where the highest frequency of it at 23 is.

  • #2
    The modal for DYS390 in R1b subclades in most cases is 24. The only subclades where the modal is 23 is under R1b-U106. Not all U106 subclades have 23 as the modal, but the biggest subclade, R1b-L48, does. R1b-U106 and all its subclades are strongly centered in northern Europe, especially England, the Low Countries and Germany.

    So, if someone has DYS390=23, there's a fairly good chance that they are U106+/L48+. If the person has 67 markers and has DYS492=13 (very strong indicator of U106+) and DYS390=23, it's very likely that he's U106+/L48+.

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    • #3
      I recently received results at 23andme. I was given R1b1b2a1a1 as my paternal haplogroup, which I believe is L48 negative ? My DYS390=23 and DYS492=13.

      Wills

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      • #4
        Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
        So, if someone has DYS390=23, there's a fairly good chance that they are U106+/L48+. If the person has 67 markers and has DYS492=13 (very strong indicator of U106+) and DYS390=23, it's very likely that he's U106+/L48+.
        There are bunch of us in SRY 2627 with DYS390=23. We all have DYS492=12 though.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by thetick View Post
          There are bunch of us in SRY 2627 with DYS390=23. We all have DYS492=12 though.
          I was not aware of that. Is 23 regarded as the DYS390 modal value for that subclade or just not an uncommon value?

          In any event, as I originally posted, DYS492=13 and DYS390=23 together are a strong indicator of L48+ status, probably at about an 85% level. That's a probability, so there will be some DYS492=13/DYS390=23 who will be L48-; they merely had a mutation in their paternal line from 24 to 23.

          The only certainty in SNP status is through SNP testing. Certain markers only indicate a probability of being positive for this or that SNP. I should have made that clear in my first posting.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Wills View Post
            I recently received results at 23andme. I was given R1b1b2a1a1 as my paternal haplogroup, which I believe is L48 negative ? My DYS390=23 and DYS492=13.

            Wills
            You are correct. R1b1b2a1a1 means U106+ and L48-. You can confirm that on your Haplotree page.

            See my reply to thetick immediately above this reply to you. While certain markers are good (not perfect) indicators of what SNP you may be positive for, they merely indicate probability. The slogan "SNPs rule" means that whatever your SNP test results show trumps whatever your markers may point to.

            If you haven't joined the R1b-U106 Project yet, please do so. Just log into your FTDNA account, go to the project website (link in my signature) and click on the "Join Request" link at the top of the page.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Wills View Post
              I recently received results at 23andme. I was given R1b1b2a1a1 as my paternal haplogroup, which I believe is L48 negative ? My DYS390=23 and DYS492=13.

              Wills
              Please note chip-based SNP testing (such as 23andMe as well as the Geno 2.0) has a small, but not negligible no-call rate. It is remotely possible, you may have a no-call at L48 (rs13303755). You can double check this by going to "browse raw data" and enter the above rs# in the SNP box.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Wing_Genealogis View Post
                Please note chip-based SNP testing (such as 23andMe as well as the Geno 2.0) has a small, but not negligible no-call rate. It is remotely possible, you may have a no-call at L48 (rs13303755). You can double check this by going to "browse raw data" and enter the above rs# in the SNP box.
                Thanks for reminding me about that. Even though L48 is a major European R1b subclade, it's not included on the Geno 2.0 chip because of the difficulties of getting it to work. I also think that 23andMe has trouble getting accurate reads for L48 on their chip.

                So, Wills may very well be L48+. As you suggest, he should double-check this following your directions. If he has a G result for rs13303755, then he is L48-. Or he may see a "no call" which would indicate he still may be L48+.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Wills View Post
                  I recently received results at 23andme. I was given R1b1b2a1a1 as my paternal haplogroup, which I believe is L48 negative ? My DYS390=23 and DYS492=13.

                  Wills
                  Willis, I am also DYS390=23 and DYS492=13... And part of the R1b-U106 Project... please join!

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                  • #10
                    Done. With the following result:

                    SNP: rs13303755 Versions: G or T Genotype: No call

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Neves View Post
                      Willis, I am also DYS390=23 and DYS492=13... And part of the R1b-U106 Project... please join!
                      I joined a couple of days ago.

                      Thanks,

                      Wills

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                      • #12
                        dys 390-23

                        I am DF27 with a dys 390-23. Is this an indicator that my ancestors were from N.Europe? Family oral history is that my surname (Banks) ancestor came from Scotland thu I can't prove it yet. Brickwall so far. Also I am 12 @ dys492 but (-sry2627) which I heard is more centrilized in Iberian.

                        Thanks David
                        Last edited by MDB; 25 March 2013, 10:31 PM. Reason: add

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