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DYS 389ii

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  • DYS 389ii

    I'd appreciate some help in interpreting some information I got from a possible relative. He and I share the same surname and family origin (County Cork, Ireland). He tested with National Geographic and at this point has only 12 marker information. We have an 11/12 match and there are two interesting aspects:

    1) We both have DYS388=11, which is very rare and I share it with three other men with my surname, all from Cork families.

    2) We have a gigantic mismatch on DYS389ii--his 18 to my 30, though we match at 14 on DYS389i.

    In looking at the distribution of values for DYS389ii, I see that 18 is very uncommon value, even less frequent than DYS388=11. I looked quickly through the first page of results from the Ireland YDNA project and no one listed there had 389ii=18. I also know, but don't completely understand, that DYS389 is a special case and that the genetic distance calculations are handled differently than those for other markers. A GD of 12 on 12 markers would imply an extremely distant common ancestor (if in fact there is one at all), but the comparable value for 388 is very interesting.

    One other interesting factor is that I have a distant cousin autosomal match to this individual's cousin, but haven't determined whether it is on the common surname line or not.

    I've suggested that he upgrade to 67 markers. In the meantime, any thoughts about interpreting these results would be most welcome. I'm wondering whether there is a possible error in his NG test, or whether for some reason it was reported differently.

    Thanks for your advice.


  • #2
    Originally posted by jbarry6899 View Post
    2) We have a gigantic mismatch on DYS389ii--his 18 to my 30, though we match at 14 on DYS389i.
    Why is my DYS389-2 result at Family Tree DNA different from the Genographic Project?

    When he transfers to FTDNA, his 389-2 value will automatically be converted to the FTDNA format.

    Looks like you'll still have a difference, though -- he'll have 32, while you have 30.



    • #3
      All other things being equal, an 11/12 match on a 12-marker Y-DNA test is not a close match.


      • #4
        FTDNA and the Genographic Project count DYS389ii differently. FTDNA combines the counts for 389i and 389ii in their public display of 389ii. The Genographic Project displays 389ii without adding in the 389i count.

        In this case, based on what you're reported, since you both have 389i=14, add 14 to his Genographic 18. That gives him a 389ii=32 in FTDNA terms, compared to your 389ii=30.

        That brings down the difference at 389ii to a reasonable level, but you still have a two step difference.


        • #5
          DYS 389ii

          Thanks for the responses. A GD of 2 is still very iffy at 12 markers but I'll try to get him to upgrade and see what happens.



          • #6
            We have a gigantic mismatch on DYS389ii
            Actually DYS389ii is one of the markers that you can mismatch as still be considered related per FTDNA's Y facts:

            My grandfather has a perfect 12/12 match with someone who shares his surname, Griffith, which FTDNA indicates is related even though only 12 markers:

            "A perfect 12/12 match between two men who share a common surname (or variant) means they likely share a common male ancestor within the genealogical time frame. The combination of these facts demonstrates their relatedness..."

            I think the match is even more compelling because they also share the rare DYS389ii=32 and it's only one of two matches at 12 markers! Unfortunately the match falls off at 37+ markers because the guy only tested to 12 markers and is so far, unresponsive to my emails. Oh well...


            • #7
              DYS 389ii

              Thanks again. Normally I would consider two step difference at 12 markers to be very distant (more than 1000 years to a common ancestor), and if we didn't have the same surname, family origin and unusual value for 388 I'd be inclined to dismiss it. However, it is still possible that we are related more closely, especially since I have a distant cousin autosomal match with his cousin.

              I've recommended that he do a 67 marker Y test and FF. We'll see what happens.



              • #8
                Very interesting

                Hi, I am extremely interested in your "rare value" my son has one on DYS 391, his is an 8, just about the whole of the male population is a 10 very occasionally a 9, but never an 8, its been checked by FTDNA and is correct, (it must be an Irish thing my husband was from Ireland?!!!!!!) we have a 4 and 5 steps on the Y67 results, and I have been told to knock two off for the 8?!!!!!!!! Anyway I have in the pipeline an upgrade to Y111, and I know the chap that is a distance of 4 has done that, so we live in hopes for the future. Best of luck with yours. Incidentally do you have an address for checking those rare results with Ireland? Thank you Julie.


                • #9
                  DYS 389ii

                  Julie--I don't have an address but if you look at the Ireland YDNA project list you can scroll down and browse the values.

                  I did some digging with this match and sent him the following this morning:

                  "You and I have an 11/12 YDNA match that includes an unusual marker value found to date only in Surname men from Cork.

                  Your family lore indicates that your family was from Cork.

                  You have ancestors who have the name Charles Surname, which is quite rare. It does occur in Cork, however, more frequently than elsewhere in Ireland. Charles Joseph Surname, b. 1846, had a father James. There is no birth record available for him. But the only parish where the names Charles and James Surname appear together is Kilgarriff, near Clonakilty in West Cork. Given the Irish penchant for repeating names in families this may be significant.

                  Kilgarriff is two miles from the family home of my closest YDNA match, Nicholas Surname, whose family was from Fourcuil. Nicholas and I have a 42/43 marker match, indicating a common ancestor in the 17th or 18th century.

                  Your second great grandmother, according to your family trees, was Catherine Other Surname. There are baptism records for women named Catherine Other Surname born in the 1930s in Clonakilty, though none can be confirmed to be your ancestor and some other family trees indicate a birthplace in Offaly.

                  I have a distant cousin DNA match with your cousin Bill Third Surname. The only shared surname in his family tree is Surname, so we almost certainly match on the Surname line.

                  My family originated in Carrigcluhir, Barryroe parish, about 10 miles from Clonakilty.

                  All of this is consistent with a West Cork origin for your family, possibly in the area near Clonakilty. Gaps in the Irish records preclude proving this conclusion at present, but it may help you to narrow your search, should you decide to pursue the lead."

                  He hasn't responded to date to my suggestion that he upgrade to Y67 and do FF, but I hope he will.