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What upgrade is recommended?

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  • What upgrade is recommended?

    My husband had the Y-DNA test 11 taken some time ago, and we want to get a better reading on his paternal line. Would it be better to upgrade to YDNA 111 panel, or to orger the deep clade? Thanks for any input..
    GenieLogical
    H3ah/I2b1

  • #2
    I would suggest looking at the National Geographic Geno 2 test.
    For 200 you get a deep clade,mtDNA,Deep clade Y. Then all you would lack is a family finder test

    Comment


    • #3
      Both FTDNA and The National Geographic Society make it very clear that Geno 2.0 is for deep ancestry and not for recent genealogy.

      If your interest is in finding recent genealogical matches from the paternal line I suggest you upgrade your Y-DNA test. I would select either Y-DNA67 or Y-DNA111 depending on your current matches.

      Comment


      • #4
        Both FTDNA and The National Geographic Society make it very clear that Geno 2.0 is for deep ancestry and not for recent genealogy
        That is true for population finder equivalent on the Geno 2 test.
        However the Geno 2 gave me a deep clade Y and a deep clade (full sequence) mtDNA. They also transfer to FTDNA without charge.
        Both the results match my recent Y deep clade and full sequence mtDNA
        It does not give STR values like FTDNA does but the poster all ready had one
        nor does it give matches like Family Finder.
        It does offer a value for two important pieces of information.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Brunetmj View Post
          That is true for population finder equivalent on the Geno 2 test.
          However the Geno 2 gave me a deep clade Y and a deep clade (full sequence) mtDNA. They also transfer to FTDNA without charge.
          Both the results match my recent Y deep clade and full sequence mtDNA
          It does not give STR values like FTDNA does but the poster all ready had one
          nor does it give matches like Family Finder.
          It does offer a value for two important pieces of information.
          The OP said,
          Originally posted by GenieLogical
          My husband had the Y-DNA test 11 taken some time ago.
          I think they need more STRs before they worry about SNPs if they want to use FTDNA's matching to help determine the recent paternal line. Of course I'm not sure how many STRs her husband has because FTDNA doesn't offer a Y-DNA11 test.

          GenieLogical, please let us know which test your husband has already ordered.

          Brunetmj, how many STRs did you have reported before you ordered Geno 2.0?

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi - my husband has taken the the full mtDNA (J1c3), Family Finder and
            y12( predicted Haplogroup: R1b1a2 Shorthand: R-M269). I'm still a novice at this. Whati s so strange is that my husband's ancestry for the last 300 years has been in Sicily or Italy; and most of his matches are from Scotland. Seems like I could refine his results? I want to catch the sale if possible... Thanks all.
            GenieLogical H3ah

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by GenieLogical View Post
              Hi - my husband has taken the the full mtDNA (J1c3), Family Finder and
              y12( predicted Haplogroup: R1b1a2 Shorthand: R-M269). I'm still a novice at this. Whati s so strange is that my husband's ancestry for the last 300 years has been in Sicily or Italy; and most of his matches are from Scotland. Seems like I could refine his results? I want to catch the sale if possible... Thanks all.
              GenieLogical H3ah
              If you haven't joined your husband yet to the Sicily Project, please do so. Since you mentioned he has Sicilian ancestry, that qualifies him. To join, log into his FTDNA account and then go to the Sicily Project website at http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Sicily and click on the link at the top labeled "Join Request." You'll be asked to give some information on his known Sicilian lines.

              The most common yDNA haplogroup in the Sicily Project is R1b1a2, at 27%. Certainly not as predominant as R1b1a2 is in northern Europe, but still substantial. That's probably why your husband is matching strongly to Scottish men.

              Unfortunately, the sale ended on Thursday, but it still would be worthwhile upgrading. At this point, as mentioned above by other posters, the two upgrade options would be to upgrade the markers, to 37 or 67, or to order Geno 2.0, which will give you his haplogroup/subclade.

              I would recommend upgrading to 67 markers before ordering Geno 2.0. With 67 markers in R1b1a2, you may get strong clues of which subclade he belongs to, which would allow you to do smart a la carte SNP testing at FTDNA. That would cost less than Geno 2.0.

              Comment


              • #8
                Not surprising.

                Originally posted by GenieLogical View Post
                Hi - my husband has taken the the full mtDNA (J1c3), Family Finder and
                y12( predicted Haplogroup: R1b1a2 Shorthand: R-M269). I'm still a novice at this. Whati s so strange is that my husband's ancestry for the last 300 years has been in Sicily or Italy; and most of his matches are from Scotland. Seems like I could refine his results? I want to catch the sale if possible... Thanks all.
                GenieLogical H3ah
                The history of Sicily is quite diverse from an anthropological standpoint and this is beginning to flesh out in the DNA results. You might wish to have his deep clade test done, which measures SNPs. I think for Mike and his project, this will lend a better perspective of the migratory patterns, and really, for each individual it should be very interesting as well.

                Your husband's haplogroup may be a byproduct of the Norman occupation of Sicily, which draws on a correlation between all of the nations that had a previous Scandinavian presence such as Normandy (now a region in northern France), Scotland, Ireland, Holland, Isle of Man, England, Wales, parts of Germany, Austria, and Italy.

                Good luck!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Zaru View Post
                  The history of Sicily is quite diverse from an anthropological standpoint and this is beginning to flesh out in the DNA results. You might wish to have his deep clade test done, which measures SNPs. I think for Mike and his project, this will lend a better perspective of the migratory patterns, and really, for each individual it should be very interesting as well.

                  Your husband's haplogroup may be a byproduct of the Norman occupation of Sicily, which draws on a correlation between all of the nations that had a previous Scandinavian presence such as Normandy (now a region in northern France), Scotland, Ireland, Holland, Isle of Man, England, Wales, parts of Germany, Austria, and Italy.

                  Good luck!
                  I've bolded Zaru's recommendation above about ordering the deep clade test. My comment on that suggestion is not to order the deep clade test.

                  The deep clade test is badly out of date and does not include many important SNPs in R1b1a2 subclades that are offered as a la carte choices on the Advanced Orders menu. The deep clade test costs $139 and individual SNPs on the Advanced Orders menu cost $29 each. If she upgrades her husband to 67 markers, there's a good chance that she can get a good insight into the probable subclade and order the right SNP, one which will quite possibly not be in the deep clade test, for $29. Or perhaps she may end up ordering two SNPs, for a total of $58, quite a saving over the deep clade test. Even FTDNA admits that the deep clade test is obsolete and says that Geno 2.0 will effectively replace it.

                  If she is interested in deep ancestry of the sort Zaru mentions, then she may want to consider the Geno 2.0 test, which costs $199, but tests for 12,000+ yDNA SNPs. But I still think that her next step should be to upgrade to 67 markers, since it seems she is looking for close matches to her husband. If that's the case, she'll need 67 markers to find meaningful matches.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by GenieLogical View Post
                    Hi - my husband has taken the the full mtDNA (J1c3), Family Finder and
                    y12( predicted Haplogroup: R1b1a2 Shorthand: R-M269). I'm still a novice at this. Whati s so strange is that my husband's ancestry for the last 300 years has been in Sicily or Italy; and most of his matches are from Scotland. Seems like I could refine his results? I want to catch the sale if possible... Thanks all.
                    GenieLogical H3ah
                    seems very similar to me, I am from north italy and have only matches with germany ( most along the rhine river) and ireland ( plus 1 scot ).
                    My tested auDna stated I have been in the alps a long long time and it was a natural migrational route to british isles.

                    The sicilians where sent when under spanish rule along the spanish road to the spanish netherlands ( portuguese and southern italians usually fought for Spain there ) and from there its not hard to get to scotland. Its a long shot, put its plausable.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks Mike.

                      Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
                      I've bolded Zaru's recommendation above about ordering the deep clade test. My comment on that suggestion is not to order the deep clade test.

                      The deep clade test is badly out of date and does not include many important SNPs in R1b1a2 subclades that are offered as a la carte choices on the Advanced Orders menu. The deep clade test costs $139 and individual SNPs on the Advanced Orders menu cost $29 each. If she upgrades her husband to 67 markers, there's a good chance that she can get a good insight into the probable subclade and order the right SNP, one which will quite possibly not be in the deep clade test, for $29. Or perhaps she may end up ordering two SNPs, for a total of $58, quite a saving over the deep clade test. Even FTDNA admits that the deep clade test is obsolete and says that Geno 2.0 will effectively replace it.

                      If she is interested in deep ancestry of the sort Zaru mentions, then she may want to consider the Geno 2.0 test, which costs $199, but tests for 12,000+ yDNA SNPs. But I still think that her next step should be to upgrade to 67 markers, since it seems she is looking for close matches to her husband. If that's the case, she'll need 67 markers to find meaningful matches.
                      That IS the better option as opposed to the deep clade. But SNP testing will be extremely useful overall, if your desire is deep ancestral roots.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Not likely.

                        Originally posted by Bartot View Post
                        seems very similar to me, I am from north italy and have only matches with germany ( most along the rhine river) and ireland ( plus 1 scot ).
                        My tested auDna stated I have been in the alps a long long time and it was a natural migrational route to british isles.

                        The sicilians where sent when under spanish rule along the spanish road to the spanish netherlands ( portuguese and southern italians usually fought for Spain there ) and from there its not hard to get to scotland. Its a long shot, put its plausable.
                        The more likely migratory pattern in this case is North to South and that any common ancestor was likely 1000+ years ago. The scandinavian influence predates the Spanish Kingdom (Aragons of Peter II) by about 300 years.But I think you are talking about a far later part of history (1700's)- Sicilians did not do much traveling outside of their homeland, as the population was quite small. We also need to keep mindful of the English influence on the island c. 1800+.

                        These are the more likely scenarios.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Zaru View Post
                          The more likely migratory pattern in this case is North to South and that any common ancestor was likely 1000+ years ago. The scandinavian influence predates the Spanish Kingdom (Aragons of Peter II) by about 300 years.But I think you are talking about a far later part of history (1700's)- Sicilians did not do much traveling outside of their homeland, as the population was quite small. We also need to keep mindful of the English influence on the island c. 1800+.

                          These are the more likely scenarios.
                          Yes, I agree with you. I had not heard at all before of any significant Sicilian involvement in Spanish Empire affairs outside Italy. If it existed at all, it would be so small as to be a drop in the genetic pool of northern Europe.

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