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Finally Ordered the Upgrade to 111 Markers

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  • Finally Ordered the Upgrade to 111 Markers

    I went from 37 markers to 67 markers with an order placed on 04 July 2006, but it has taken me until this morning (over six years later) to finally order the upgrade to 111 markers. Of course, I haven't exactly been idle. I've done mtDNA testing, Family Finder testing, and all sorts of y-dna SNP testing.

    Not that anyone but me cares about my upgrade, but I wanted to post this to remind those who are still sitting on the fence that FTDNA's big Holiday Sale ends tomorrow night at midnight Houston, Texas, time.

    Time to go to 111 markers!

    And go see "The Hobbit"; it's a great movie.

  • #2
    So far my grandfather's L-21 has been hard to place for further snp testing and I'd really like to get a final haplogroup designation past predicted R-M269. I'm waiting on his upgrade to 67 markers and 2 snps, DF13 and DF41. What if DF41 is negative, DF13 is positive, and he's still hard to place at 67 markers...which is the better bet? Deep Clade test for $139 or refine67to111 at 109? Thanks and good luck on your 111 markers

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    • #3
      Congratulations, Stevo, on your upgrade. (I already did 111 on my father's and husband's, but just ordered 111 markers last night for my maternal grandfather's line.) I might take you up on your movie recommendation. Your post made me laugh.

      Littlest Bit: Perhaps others will chime in on your specific haplogroup and situation, but, based on what I've learned, it is most productive to test SNPs. Since the release of Geno 2.0, the Deep Clade is expected to become obsolete. The Genographic Project is bringing to light new SNPs that will likely result in major revisions to the Y-DNA tree. (These SNPs are not available with Deep Clade testing.) Therefore, to take part in the latest research in discovering your Y-haplogroup, Geno 2.0 is going to take you much further to your goal than any other test at this point. If you were to spend $139 for the Deep Clade test, you are likely to need to spend more for multiple individual SNPs later on (that are not yet available for individual testing). I believe your best option is to spend $199 with Geno 2.0, and then transfer those SNPs to your FTDNA account. Geno 2.0 testing will catapult you way ahead of Deep Clade testing at this point. Good luck!!

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      • #4
        Thanks for the advice but I don't see Geno 2.0 as a viable option: too expensive and I'd feel awkward about asking my grandpa to perform yet another DNA test. I think he'd start to wonder about what I'm up to: he's done 23andme v2, v3 upgrade, and now FTDNA. Anyway, most of what I've been reading in the threads about Geno 2.0 have been fairly negative.

        Maybe I'll wait until FTDNA revises Deep Clade to reflect what they've found in Geno 2.0? I mean, they should eventually right? Or admit their Deep Clade test is worthless and stop offering it.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Littlest bit View Post
          Maybe I'll wait until FTDNA revises Deep Clade to reflect what they've found in Geno 2.0? I mean, they should eventually right? Or admit their Deep Clade test is worthless and stop offering it.
          FTDNA CEO Bennett Greenspan has reportedly indicated that deep clade will be phased out in favor of Geno 2.

          For those who prefer to test SNP-by-SNP the hope is that key "new" SNPs form the Geno 2 set will be added to FTDNA's advanced test menu.

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          • #6
            I concur with gtc and Everwaiting. Don't order the Deep Clade. It's obsolete. Better to upgrade to 111 markers and wait on your DF13 and DF41 results. I hope you come out DF41+, but if you don't, 67 and, better yet, 111 markers will make it easier to predict your terminal SNP.

            @Everwaiting - Peter Jackson took some liberties with the story, but The Hobbit is a great film. I will probably go see it again today.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Littlest bit View Post
              ...
              Maybe I'll wait until FTDNA revises Deep Clade to reflect what they've found in Geno 2.0? I mean, they should eventually right?
              ...
              That would be my guess.

              Because the GenoChip Y SNP selection is already out-of-date. Because (I've read) not all GenoChip Y primers are working reliably. Because FTDNA Y testing cannot wait on the next iteration of the GenoChip to get it right.

              FTDNA could offer a chip exclusively for Y to automate the lab work.

              If FTDNA does offer the GenoChip for Deep Clade what becomes of all the mtDNA and AIM data? Or is that a tactic to force users to add to Genographic db?
              Last edited by tomcat; 31st December 2012, 08:46 AM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by tomcat View Post
                That would be my guess.

                Because the GenoChip Y SNP selection is already out-of-date. Because (I've read) not all GenoChip Y primers are working reliably.
                That is correct. They overloaded the chip past Illumina's suggested limit. I don't know if that's the key reason behind the failures.

                FTDNA could offer a chip exclusively for Y to automate the lab work.
                Interesting idea, but I can't see FTDNA competing with Geno 2 in the near term.

                If FTDNA does offer the GenoChip for Deep Clade what becomes of all the mtDNA and AIM data? Or is that a tactic to force users to add to Genographic db?
                Good question.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by gtc View Post
                  ...
                  Interesting idea, but I can't see FTDNA competing with Geno 2 in the near term.
                  Obviously I have no knowledge of the Geno-FTDNA agreements but don't see how an FTDNA Y chip would necessarily be competitive with Geno, especially give their long record of data-sharing.
                  Last edited by tomcat; 31st December 2012, 10:54 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by gtc View Post
                    That is correct. They overloaded the chip past Illumina's suggested limit. I don't know if that's the key reason behind the failures.
                    I don't think that's the reason for some ySNPs on Geno 2.0 being unreliable and having to be pulled from the list of results.

                    When 23andMe upgraded their chip from v2 to v3 (both Illumina), they made a big deal about how they had added hundreds of ySNPs that weren't on the v2 chip. I was considering upgrading from v2 to v3 for that reason alone, but I didn't. I'm glad I didn't because a large percentage of the ySNPs added were getting "no calls" or false results.

                    The basic problem is that direct sequencing of the y is far superior to chip technology in getting accurate results. Even so, in the case of Geno 2.0, from what we can tell they've had much better ySNP results than 23andMe had with their v3 chip. With 12,000+ ySNPs, Geno 2.0 is a very good investment in most cases, if you're interested in finding your terminal SNP.
                    Last edited by MMaddi; 31st December 2012, 11:12 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tomcat View Post
                      Obviously I have no knowledge of the Geno-FTDNA agreements but don't see how an FTDNA Y chip would necessarily be competitive with Geno, especially give their long record of data-sharing.
                      Bennett Greenspan has answered this before.

                      http://dna-explained.com/2012/07/26/...ett-greenspan/

                      "Q: Does Family Tree DNA plan to offer a test that will be more extensive then the new Genographic test for the Y chromosome?

                      A: No. The most extensive test for obtaining YDNA SNP data is available on the Geno 2.0 chip and Family Tree DNA has no plans to compete with its partner. STR results will not be supplied by Geno 2.0 and all regular genealogical marker tests should be ordered through Family Tree DNA. These two tests go hand in hand."

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                      • #12
                        The problem with either test is they may not list your true terminal SNP so
                        testing individual SNP's will still be required. I am actually DF13 and negative for all downstream SNP's. The Geno 2 test did not include DF13 although it did include some down stream snp's. So one could assume DF13 if testing positive for one of them. However a plain DF13 would not know as they would be listed as L21 only.This would also include some of the bix six SNP's downstream not tested.
                        I would encourage people to join their appropriate projects, become familiar with what’s going on and test individual SNP's.

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                        • #13
                          Is the Geno 2 test being declared a failure, or at least a disappointment ?

                          Wills

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by travers View Post
                            Bennett Greenspan has answered this before.

                            http://dna-explained.com/2012/07/26/...ett-greenspan/

                            "Q: Does Family Tree DNA plan to offer a test that will be more extensive then the new Genographic test for the Y chromosome?

                            A: No. The most extensive test for obtaining YDNA SNP data is available on the Geno 2.0 chip and Family Tree DNA has no plans to compete with its partner. STR results will not be supplied by Geno 2.0 and all regular genealogical marker tests should be ordered through Family Tree DNA. These two tests go hand in hand."
                            Not sure if that's completely accurate. It's my understanding that WTY will still be available, but customers will have needed to test GENO2.0 first before being approved for WTY.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Wills View Post
                              Is the Geno 2 test being declared a failure, or at least a disappointment ?

                              Wills
                              A failure? Absolutely not. A disappointment? For some people, in some ways, but all the tests, by all the companies are. GENO2.0 is a work in progress, as they clearly state.

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