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  • I2a not what I expected

    I'm new to all this, genetic genealogy, had pushed my paper genealogy to the point of dispair, so much work, such little return. DNA seemed to offer another avenue, especially on my father's line, which had slammed into a brick wall in 1780's Cambridgeshire.

    Now, I've received my Y DNA results, up to 67 marker, I'm I2a, probably I2a2a dinaric south.

    The reason this is a surprise is that, to the best of my knowledge, I2a2a dinaric south is strongest in the Balkans, shading out into Central & Eastern Europe, hardly known in England.

    I've joined the I2 haplogroup project, and on their suggestion am having some advanced SNP tests done to verify this.

    I'm aware that the most likely reason for having such an unusual haplogroup in my family is that somewhere along the line a different male introduced
    I2a Y DNA into the family tree. Pretty sure it wasn't my parents, but before that?

    Got that on the table, but what other options for introduction of I2a2a dinaric south are there, and how long ago did it occur? Any tests, statistical analsys, psychics? The only matches that have been thrown up are very distant, at 7 on the 67 marker, which possibly could be 350 years to a common ancestor, probably longer.

    My expectations were to be part of the common haplogroups of the British Isles, maybe Saxon or Viking. The result I got (so far, it could change) was so far out there it caused me to doubt my genealogy research, and I don't really know if I'm asking for suggestions, or reassurance.

    Doesn't help there is no surname project.

    Anyhow, thanks for reading this

    A

  • #2
    I think that ,with a few exceptions, that most haplogroups cannot be assigned to any particular country or region. I discovered this when I surprisingly tested as L21 , mostly associated with the Irish and the UK. I am quite French.
    Going back in time it is obvious that people were far more mobile that we give them credit for. There have been traders from all over the known world coming and going into the British Isles even in ancient times.
    You certainly have done all the right things joining projects etc. See what happens when the National geographic results begin to come in. Wo knows maybe some more SNP's in your haplogroup will be discovered.

    Comment


    • #3
      L21 is believed to have originated in France so why are you surprised?


      Originally posted by Brunetmj View Post
      I think that ,with a few exceptions, that most haplogroups cannot be assigned to any particular country or region. I discovered this when I surprisingly tested as L21 , mostly associated with the Irish and the UK. I am quite French.
      Going back in time it is obvious that people were far more mobile that we give them credit for. There have been traders from all over the known world coming and going into the British Isles even in ancient times.
      You certainly have done all the right things joining projects etc. See what happens when the National geographic results begin to come in. Wo knows maybe some more SNP's in your haplogroup will be discovered.

      Comment


      • #4
        L21 is believed to have originated in France so why are you surprised?
        Well I was really illustrating a point to the original poster that the haplogroups usually associated with an area, in his case I2a2a and his association with it in the balkans , is not the only place where it is found. If his ancestors lived in the UK there is no need to doubt that they may have been there since ancient times even with his haplogroup.

        In the same way L21 is not normally associated with France and the surprise occurred when I saw my results (the same as the poster).
        Now that I have researched things I understand it better.

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        • #5
          Thanks for replying, I know that my I2a2a could even be my ancestral line in England, absence of evidence not being evidence of absence and all that, but damn, I really wanted to be descended from the Western European megalith builders.

          A

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Brunetmj View Post
            Well I was really illustrating a point to the original poster that the haplogroups usually associated with an area, in his case I2a2a and his association with it in the balkans , is not the only place where it is found. If his ancestors lived in the UK there is no need to doubt that they may have been there since ancient times even with his haplogroup.

            In the same way L21 is not normally associated with France and the surprise occurred when I saw my results (the same as the poster).
            Now that I have researched things I understand it better.
            The fact that you are French and you dont belong to any of the SNPs downstream of DF13 that are in the Isles may be significant.The fact also that you dont have any matches. It may point to the Isles as the origin of the others. So that would mean L21 and DF13 were both born in France.I know this thread is about the I haplogroup but I just thought that your comments were interesting.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by chartera View Post
              Thanks for replying, I know that my I2a2a could even be my ancestral line in England, absence of evidence not being evidence of absence and all that, but damn, I really wanted to be descended from the Western European megalith builders.

              A
              There's always the fun possibility of roman legionaries?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by chartera View Post
                Thanks for replying, I know that my I2a2a could even be my ancestral line in England, absence of evidence not being evidence of absence and all that, but damn, I really wanted to be descended from the Western European megalith builders.
                Have you uploaded your markers to Ysearch yet?

                Comment


                • #9
                  The fact that you are French and you dont belong to any of the SNPs downstream of DF13 that are in the Isles may be significant.The fact also that you dont have any matches. It may point to the Isles as the origin of the others. So that would mean L21 and DF13 were both born in France.I know this thread is about the I haplogroup but I just thought that your comments were interesting.
                  Yes I understand . I have seen debates on the origions of L21 go on for 5 and 6 pages on other sites. I was really just trying to avoid such discussions in this gentlemans thread. If you want to discuss it more please feel free to PM me.
                  I do appreciate the interest.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This is only one line, a very small part of your ancestry. Odds are very good you're descended from people who arrived in England at an assortment of times and for many different reasons.

                    Yes, it may be slightly more unusual given your known history, but that doesn't mean you have an NPE. I've tested two of my German lineages, my maternal grandfather & a brother of my paternal grandmother. Oddly enough both tested as E (neither is of the most common European E). Given the fact that E is roughly 6% of Germans, I was shocked when I got the first. When I got the second I almost thought I was being punked by someone, lol. Not what I expected, but I am grateful for uniqueness. My own father is M222+, so that was a little boring. The only thing that added to the excitement is that my father's direct paternal lineage is Scottish.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by aeduna View Post
                      There's always the fun possibility of roman legionaries?
                      Too true, makes all the years of interest in ancient history a little more "personal", my brother would be chuffed by a roman connection.

                      And yes, I've uploaded to ysearch, everyone is even more distant a connection there.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by chartera View Post
                        Too true, makes all the years of interest in ancient history a little more "personal", my brother would be chuffed by a roman connection.

                        And yes, I've uploaded to ysearch, everyone is even more distant a connection there.
                        Are you sure you are Dinaric South, and not Disles, which is very close to Dinaric, but typical for Britain. As far as I know there is no SNP dividing Dinaric and Disles, so this test may not give you more.
                        Also, the latest speculations are I2a2 Dinaric came to the South Balkans only with the Slavic expansion in 6th century, it could not be brought to Britain with the Roman legions as was thought for E-V13.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by eastara View Post
                          Are you sure you are Dinaric South, and not Disles, which is very close to Dinaric, but typical for Britain. As far as I know there is no SNP dividing Dinaric and Disles, so this test may not give you more.
                          Also, the latest speculations are I2a2 Dinaric came to the South Balkans only with the Slavic expansion in 6th century, it could not be brought to Britain with the Roman legions as was thought for E-V13.
                          Well, just got an email from the I haplogroup administrator, he seems pretty certain that its Dinaric South, not Disles. I'm certain that comments about the Legions was meant tongue in cheek. And, unfortunately, speculation is not fact. So until something definitive comes along, my genetic ancestry is the Balkans, probably from some 2800 years ago.

                          There are many ways my y ancestor could have washed up in England's green and pleasant land. With the movements of peoples and individuals across the face of Europe it's fun to speculate, but as I can't trace past my 3x greatgrandfather, James Charter, the paper trail isn't going to help, but as he was from Cambridgeshire in the east of England, this y ancestor probably came across the Baltic and North Seas. Still it's all just a guess.

                          A

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by chartera View Post
                            Doesn't help there is no surname project.
                            You may be eligible to join the Carter project. Charter, Le Cartier and Carter are historically related surnames in some dictionaries.

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                            • #15
                              Good point

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