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Can 12 marker matches be significant?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Bartot View Post
    estimated relationships? ......the match sits under matches, advance matches and chromosone in Family Finder

    shared cm is 26.31 and longest block is 8.27.

    to me it neither here or there in regards to 25 years or 30 years, but I will mentally conform to 30 years from now on.

    thanks for information
    I should have read your first post more closely. I thought you were asking about matches in Family Finder that were estimated as 1st, 2nd and 3rd cousins. That's why I answered your second question as I did.

    Rereading your post, I see that you refer to an estimated 5th cousin match in Family Finder who is also a 12 marker yDNA match. In your first post, you wrote "I of these tests ( the only one), appears in FF as a 5th cousin.........I contacted this person and his reply was that his ancestors where from Scotland." In the post above I'm responding to, you wrote "shared cm is 26.31 and longest block is 8.27."

    I'm still not sure I understand your underlying question. But it seems that you're surprised that a 12 marker yDNA match says he has Scottish ancestry and noting that in Family Finder the "shared cm is 26.31 and longest block is 8.27."

    This is not so surprising. If he is a 12 marker match, it's not wise to assume that you and he are related in the paternal line in the last 1,000 years; it's a low resolution match. And there's no guarantee that the shared segment in Family Finder is from both your paternal lines. The common ancestor could be in any lines in both your trees, since Family Finder tests autosomal DNA which comes from ancestors in all the lines in a family tree.
    Last edited by MMaddi; 12 October 2012, 04:56 PM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
      What I was referring to is the average generation in years for men. It would be different for female lines, since husbands are usually slightly older than the women they marry.

      The other factor is that I was talking about all children in a family. You may be referring to the age of the parents when the first child was born. Let's take an example of what I mean by generation length. To make it (relatively) simple, I'll just deal with 3 generations of children.

      The great-grandparents in this example have 6 children. The first child is born when the father was 24 and the mother 21. The last child was born when the father was 37 and the mother was 34.

      Next generation, let's take the first child in the previous generation and the last child. The first child, a boy, had his first child when he was 22 and his last child when he was 34. The last child from the previous paragraph, also a man, had his first child at 24 and his last child at 32.

      Next generation is your father and one of his 1st cousins. Your father is the first child born to the man 1 paragraph ago who had his first child at 22 and was the first child of the man 2 paragraphs ago. Your father's 1st cousin is the last child born to the man in the previous paragraph, who was 32 at the time of that birth. This man in the previous paragraph was the last child of the man in the first paragraph.

      Now the final generation, yours. You are the first child of the father in the previous paragraph and your father was 23 when you were born. Your 2nd cousin is the son of your father's 1st cousin in the previous paragraph and he is the last child of his father, born when the father was 36.

      Now compute the average generational age for you and your 2nd cousin. Your numbers are 22 (your father), 22 (your grandfather) and 24 (great-grandfather). Your average generational age is 22.67. Your 2nd cousin's numbers are 36 (his father), 32 (grandfather) and 34 (great-grandfather, same as yours). His average generational age is 34.

      If you average his generational age and yours, the average is 28.33, closer to 30 than 25. If I had done this tedious exercise for all great-grandchildren of the great-grandfather, the average generational age would probably also have been closer to 30 than 25. This is not a big deal when you're only going back 3 generations. However, when you're going back even 7 or 8 generations and don't know all the details we have above, in most cases you'd be underestimating when an ancestor might have been born if you use a 25 year generational age, as most children are not either first child of first child of first child, etc. or last child of last child of last child, etc.
      My father's direct male line is this way where the men are in their mid 20's-30's have children when they are a little older and the women are younger. They are from New England and from a different culture. My southern family both male and female marry young and believe this most of my ancestors are 1st to 3rd born in each generation so all the parents are young!!! The ones that are AI that I cant trace further back, Im guessing that they had children young too considering they had a different belief and culture than the church. A male may have been considered a man around age 16. This is why I am having so much trouble with family finder even on what FTDNA considers closer matches. Are my matches having same issue and don't know it or do they have NPE like we do and they don't know it??? I probably have more lines Y and MT DNA tested than they do to know about some NPE. The close matches we do have come from same Counties as my family yet we can not find paper trail or surname matches. This in general should not be happening. Im sure Im not the only one it's happening to since some of my matches are baffled as to why their ancestors and mine are coming up with 2-4th cousin , 80-90 cm shared and on more than one chrome, are living in same town and no surname match.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Yaffa View Post
        My father's direct male line is this way where the men are in their mid 20's-30's have children when they are a little older and the women are younger. They are from New England and from a different culture. My southern family both male and female marry young and believe this most of my ancestors are 1st to 3rd born in each generation so all the parents are young!!! The ones that are AI that I cant trace further back, Im guessing that they had children young too considering they had a different belief and culture than the church. A male may have been considered a man around age 16. This is why I am having so much trouble with family finder even on what FTDNA considers closer matches. Are my matches having same issue and don't know it or do they have NPE like we do and they don't know it??? I probably have more lines Y and MT DNA tested than they do to know about some NPE. The close matches we do have come from same Counties as my family yet we can not find paper trail or surname matches. This in general should not be happening. Im sure Im not the only one it's happening to since some of my matches are baffled as to why their ancestors and mine are coming up with 2-4th cousin , 80-90 cm shared and on more than one chrome, are living in same town and no surname match.
        Generational age is a cultural phenomenon. The generational age may be younger among Native Americans or more indigenous cultures where people marry and have children earlier. So, perhaps my exercise doesn't apply to you, but to traditional European culture.

        Also, in modern industrial countries today, the trend seems to be to marry later and to have less children. Perhaps that also will affect the average generational age over the next few decades.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
          Generational age is a cultural phenomenon. The generational age may be younger among Native Americans or more indigenous cultures where people marry and have children earlier. So, perhaps my exercise doesn't apply to you, but to traditional European culture.

          Also, in modern industrial countries today, the trend seems to be to marry later and to have less children. Perhaps that also will affect the average generational age over the next few decades.
          Yes it does depend on culture. My Father's direct male line is more true to European culture and yes modern generations now a days are having children later in life. Some are anyway. There is still a high rate of teen pregnancy too. Also a higher rate of people using sperm and egg donors which is a whole separate issue on top of adoptions and or NPE. There is no regulation in the US on sperm and egg donation. They get given a # for their parents.

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