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  • Df27+

    I am (was) R-P312. Some weaks ago I was reading a post about DF27 and Z196 and that it would be worthwhile to test for these but if one was negative (or positive) it didn't make sense to test the other, can't remember and can't find back.

    Anyway, I ordered a test for both DF27 and Z196 just out of curiosity. Turns out Z196- and DF27+. PS, I am also L176.2- just in case this is of use and any other known (ftdna listed) subclade of P312.

    Is this interesting? Where do I find more info? I am member of the "P312 and subclades group" on ftdna and some threads here suggest there is a lot of traffick in those groups on these mutations but I can't find anything of use.

    Anyone who can shed some more light on this or point me to the right thread?

    Paper trail stops around 1700, ancestry origin before that is completely unknown. I don't have any YSTR matches anywhere close not even on 12 markers let alone 37markers or more.

  • #2
    (some edits to my 1st post)

    edit#1 : I now found out this was the Yahoo group on P312 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/R-P312Project and the deal was that if one had already tested for Z196- (formerly subclade of P312) then there was no need to retest. Obviously.

    edit #2: I think (?) L176.2 is now thought of being a subclade of Z196 again...

    edit #3: When will FTDNA update their Haplogroup maps to reflect D27 etc? Could be useful!

    edit #4: After 1700: all lines in the Netherlands. Before 1700: unknown but definitively Europe and almost certainly not Netherlands.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Ic0,

      I guess you are aware of this Phylogenetic Tree;

      http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/R-P312Project/

      I just tested positive for the DF27, and are awaiting results from Z196 and L618... As you, I am negative to L176.2.

      I am a Norwegian and my STR markers does not match anything, so waiting until more tests are in is probably what i need to do..

      Comment


      • #4
        My YDNA unequals anything else in the database. Besides one hit on my 12 marker, who again shows a genetic distance of 11 on the 37 marker set, there are only two 32/37.

        I have currently tested, "R1b1a2a1a1b P312+ DF27+ Z196- U152- M65- M160- M153- M126- L96- L617- L4- L226- L21- L20- L196- L193- L176.2- L165- L159.2- L144". My obvious next step will be to test L1231, L86,2, Z225, L881 and L194,1245, L1246.

        Will the Geno2.0 test any/all of the above markers under DF27..?

        Will a WTY give any additional information...?

        The above groups that I still may test, seems to be very marginal. Anyone know how many tested positive the spesific groups under DF27+..?

        Comment


        • #5
          DF27 is a MAJOR division of P312, found pretty much all across continental Europe and into the British Isles. It's a biggy!

          Comment


          • #6
            Here is Thomas Krahn's draft DF27 tree:

            http://ytree.ftdna.com/index.php?nam...arent=99813460

            If you click on any of the blue SNPs, a window will open up for that SNP that will give you the number of those tested and derived (positive; scroll down in the window for all the stats).

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks Stevo,

              So L86,2 and L881 as the next SNPs may be a good move. Do anyone knows what more information WTY may give..?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Juulsen View Post
                Hi Ic0,

                I guess you are aware of this Phylogenetic Tree;

                http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/R-P312Project/

                .
                "There is no group called R-P312Project." by Yahoo

                I was disappointed not to see this project. Any other link available?

                Comment


                • #9
                  http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/R1b-P312-Project/

                  The name was recently changed to make it easier to find...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I am still testing for SNPs under DF27, and so far I am just DF27+*. In connection with my SNP search, I have a question for all you experts to answer; the answer might be obvious, but being a DF27+, I would expect that most of my closest STR matches also would be under DF27, but one of my closest matches (a GD of 10) is under U152/L2, while a guy who has tested DF27+ has a GD of 17 to my 37 marker.

                    _____________________________
                    R1b1a2a1a1b P312+ DF27+ Z196- U152- M65- M160- M153- M126- L96- L617- L4- L226- L21- L20- L196- L193- L176.2- L165- L159.2- L144-

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think the simplest and most likely answer is that P312 and its subclades expanded rapidly and, relatively speaking, aren't all that old. Heck, that's probably also true of L11. Look how the WAMH is distributed across L11: it's found in, as far as I know, every L11+ clade. Thus our tree looks more like a bush, with lots of bristly, short branches.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Does this means then, that searching for the closest "gentic distance (GD)" in surname projects is of limited value, unless information about a common and fairly new SNP is available..?


                        _____________________________
                        R1b1a2a1a1b P312+ DF27+ Z196- U152- M65- M160- M153- M126- L96- L617- L4- L226- L21- L20- L196- L193- L176.2- L165- L159.2- L144-

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Juulsen View Post
                          Does this means then, that searching for the closest "gentic distance (GD)" in surname projects is of limited value, unless information about a common and fairly new SNP is available..?


                          _____________________________
                          R1b1a2a1a1b P312+ DF27+ Z196- U152- M65- M160- M153- M126- L96- L617- L4- L226- L21- L20- L196- L193- L176.2- L165- L159.2- L144-
                          It depends on how distant that genetic distance is, how many markers you are using, whether or not you share the same surname, etc.

                          Try to find your haplotype cluster. Look at the off-modal marker values you have, especially at the slow mutating markers, and see who matches you at those markers. See if any of those people has tested positive for anything you are looking for.

                          That's how I found my current terminal SNP. I teamed up with another member of my cluster, and we split the SNPs up for testing. He took some and I took the rest. He lucked out and got the DF41+ hit first. Once I saw he was DF41+, I was about 99% certain I would be, too, and, sure enough, I am.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            As “Stevo” adviced earlier under this topic, I’ve looked into FamilytreeDNA’s "drafted polygeny tree" and the folowing table is found;


                            ________________DF27 Z196 L86.2 L194 L612 L2131 L1245 L1246 L881
                            Count_derived: ___108 __87 __3 _____1 ___4 ____1 ___1 ___2 ____8
                            Count_tested: ___144 __423 _83 ___674 _317 ___77 __80 __79 __108


                            Does anyone know how “Count_derived” and “Count_tested” shall be understood..?

                            Secondly, I have considered to either order the Geno2.0, or apply for WTY.

                            Will I get more SNPs tested under Geno2.0, when I am already tested DF27+ and negative to both L617 and Z196 and awaiting result for L86.2 and L881?

                            What may I hope for, if I get a WTY?
                            _____________________________
                            R1b1a2a1a1b P312+ DF27+ Z196- U152- M65- M160- M153- M126- L96- L617- L4- L226- L21- L20- L196- L193- L176.2- L165- L159.2- L144-

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Juulsen View Post
                              ...
                              Does anyone know how “Count_derived” and “Count_tested” shall be understood..?
                              ...
                              Count_tested = Total number of people tested for the SNP
                              Count_derived = Number of people who tested positive (derived=positive) for the SNP

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