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  • Big Y results in, slightly confused

    My Big Y results came in earlier in the week but it doesn't look like my haplogroup was refined at all, still at R-S1026 and when I look at my haplotree, all of the SNPs that fall under R-S1026 are still purchasable. Shouldn't the Big Y have gotten me past all of that or am I confused as to what the Big Y does?

  • #2
    Originally posted by acollette49 View Post
    My Big Y results came in earlier in the week but it doesn't look like my haplogroup was refined at all, still at R-S1026 and when I look at my haplotree, all of the SNPs that fall under R-S1026 are still purchasable. Shouldn't the Big Y have gotten me past all of that or am I confused as to what the Big Y does?
    Exactly. If the downstream SNPs were not tested, and they want to sell you those tests for hundreds and hundreds of additional dollars (and yes, they do let you put them in your cart), why do they advertise the test as a "big Y"? Is this even honest?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by acollette49 View Post
      My Big Y results came in earlier in the week but it doesn't look like my haplogroup was refined at all, still at R-S1026 and when I look at my haplotree, all of the SNPs that fall under R-S1026 are still purchasable. Shouldn't the Big Y have gotten me past all of that or am I confused as to what the Big Y does?
      This is probably a UI oversight on the part of FTDNA. Discrete SNP Tests are a different product line than BigY, so until/unless you get a SNP with no further subclades, that probably is something that could happen. As I could see them only copying positive SNP results from BigY back over to the discrete SNP side.

      Getting BigY result that places you in a clade/SNP that has sub-clades isn't uncommon at all, it means you don't match any currently known subclades so "your line ends there" until somebody else tests that matches you on some of your novel SNPs, at which time you'll be assigned a new terminal SNP/sub-clade.

      abuelita, as it stands, once you've taken the BigY at this point, there are no further Y-DNA tests on FTDNA you could take. If BigY didn't say you belonged to a particular SNP, a new SNP test is going to come back negative. That is, unless there was a problem with your sample in the lab, which has happened too, but they're evidently good about reprocessing your BigY in that case, no need to spend $40 on a single SNP.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by bartarl260 View Post

        This is probably a UI oversight on the part of FTDNA. Discrete SNP Tests are a different product line than BigY, so until/unless you get a SNP with no further subclades, that probably is something that could happen. As I could see them only copying positive SNP results from BigY back over to the discrete SNP side.

        Getting BigY result that places you in a clade/SNP that has sub-clades isn't uncommon at all, it means you don't match any currently known subclades so "your line ends there" until somebody else tests that matches you on some of your novel SNPs, at which time you'll be assigned a new terminal SNP/sub-clade.
        Makes sense, thanks!

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        • #5
          Now that I have my own BigY results back, and my results appearing to split/reshuffle my new terminal SNP, I can comment further.

          It does seem to be a display artifact, while in my case they are simply SNPs and not clades. My two BigY matches on that branch are positive for those SNPs, while FTDNA is negative/no-call on my having those (blue) SNPs. Will know more once YFull takes their look at things.

          In the meantime I am slightly confused as to how the only two other people in my terminal SNP do not seem to match me at any level of STR testing, while I have a few dozen other STR matches who also BigY tested, are in neighboring clades, and DO match me at some level(Y-12) of STR testing. Many of those Y-12 STR matches showing a difference of 10 to 15 at the BigY level. Good news for me is my two other clade members are at Yfull by all appearances so maybe I will get answers there, if I can't get them into a Y-DNA project over here. (That GD1 matches on Y12 evidently only show in the event of either being an adoptee, or being members of the same FTDNA project, their non-participation can explain that absence)

          I'm guessing "part of the challenge" is they either were WtY or early-ish BigY test takers and their STR markers in the 37 to 111 range are lacking as they haven't been updated/upgraded yet, while DYS464/DYS459/CDY did a number on our matching at 25 and/or 37 markers. (More than 4 markers at DYS464)

          EDIT: Another factor I encountered being mentioned is NGS BigY will "No Call" markers, while discrete SNP tests will continue to be run until a conclusion is drawn, so while a marker that saw a "No Call" result is likely to be negative, a single SNP test might turn out a positive result instead. Which would be another reason for BigY to only transfer over positive test results.

          And means you(or a project Admin) get to browse your results to determine WHY those specific markers are blue.
          Last edited by bartarl260; 31st December 2018, 07:31 PM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by bartarl260 View Post

            EDIT: Another factor I encountered being mentioned is NGS BigY will "No Call" markers, while discrete SNP tests will continue to be run until a conclusion is drawn, so while a marker that saw a "No Call" result is likely to be negative, a single SNP test might turn out a positive result instead. Which would be another reason for BigY to only transfer over positive test results.

            And means you(or a project Admin) get to browse your results to determine WHY those specific markers are blue.
            Thank you! Your whole explanation makes sense. For the kit that has only two "blues" downstream, I will check to see if they are no-calls or neg. (Just did - they were negative.) But as for the kit that has about 50 "blues" plus their alternates, most with "Add" buttons, that will certainly be tedious. Actually Yfull makes this reasonably easy to do with "check SNPs" - but nevertheless it's one by one, and the terms in Yfull don't always match those used in FT - and I don't know how to handle that.

            Why doesn't FT just remove all the buttons that say "add" after a person has had a Big Y test? They could leave the actual SNP names in blue to indicate "downstream" if they wish.

            We weren't about to actually purchase any of these individual SNP tests, but have twice seen fellow novices in projects, after completion of a BigY, say they were going to order this or that SNP because it was available for adding, which they interpreted as a recommendation to do so. (I'm sure they had not compared these individual blue SNPs against their lists of no-calls and negatives.)

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            • #7
              Originally posted by abuelita View Post
              Thank you! Your whole explanation makes sense. For the kit that has only two "blues" downstream, I will check to see if they are no-calls or neg. (Just did - they were negative.) But as for the kit that has about 50 "blues" plus their alternates, most with "Add" buttons, that will certainly be tedious. Actually Yfull makes this reasonably easy to do with "check SNPs" - but nevertheless it's one by one, and the terms in Yfull don't always match those used in FT - and I don't know how to handle that.
              Thankfully for me, it was only the one actual clade, and only a handful of SNP's to check, 8 SNPs on YFull, 6 for FTDNA, only one of the YFull SNPs was unknown(or had another identifier) to FTDNA in my case. So my list was quick to work through, I'm a single SNP match for my current terminal on FTDNA, while YFull has that same positive SNP maker and an additional SNP I won't know about until they finish interpreting my results because the two companies don't seem to identify it the same way..

              Why doesn't FT just remove all the buttons that say "add" after a person has had a Big Y test? They could leave the actual SNP names in blue to indicate "downstream" if they wish.
              I think part of the excuse here is that "The BigY is for advanced users" and they're supposed to know better than to order single SNP tests for a marker they've already had tested, unless they think the marker call was wrong for some reason, which is why they can order them to have it re-tested.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by abuelita View Post


                Why doesn't FT just remove all the buttons that say "add" after a person has had a Big Y test? They could leave the actual SNP names in blue to indicate "downstream" if they wish.

                We weren't about to actually purchase any of these individual SNP tests, but have twice seen fellow novices in projects, after completion of a BigY, say they were going to order this or that SNP because it was available for adding, which they interpreted as a recommendation to do so. (I'm sure they had not compared these individual blue SNPs against their lists of no-calls and negatives.)
                I actually emailed customer service and was told that it can take a month to 'update' the data in the haplotree, so the blue add buttons should go away... assuming of course that the SNPs are negative and not no-calls.

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