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Ordering a Big Y without Y37?

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  • Adrian Stevenson
    replied
    I have ordered Biy Y without any Y tests, only Family Finder. I was at a show and they were happy to do this for me.

    I just wanted my terminal SNP.

    Cheers, Ade,

    Leave a comment:


  • MMaddi
    replied
    Originally posted by mlcarson View Post
    More like the Big-Y will get all of the Y-111 information but not at a confidence level that satisfies FTDNA -- especially when it cuts into profits of the Y-111 test. If Big-Y misses a Y-111 marker, what do you do with regard to Y-111 matching? I think you'd just make it a null value and sell another test to get the true value. They already do that with their other Y-tests. My DYS425 is NULL from the Y-67 test and I could order the DYF371X test to find out why.

    From a marketing perspective, I think they could make the Big-Y more attractive in finding a way for it to include a Y-111 so that it would be an all inclusive Y-DNA test.
    I bolded the part of your post that gets to the key issue.

    Yes, Big Y results can include STR results for many, but not all among the 111 STRs that FTDNA offers for standalone testing. It can't get all 111 STRs with a Big Y test, which you posted. That's because the Big Y testing process chops up the DNA into smaller pieces. This means that the longer STRs that have many repeats can't be found in a Big Y test, since they're longer than the pieces of DNA that have been chopped up.

    Also, as you refer to in what I bolded, it's been noted by genetic genealogists and FTDNA that there are a significant number of cases where, when you compare the counts for an STR result from a standard STR test and an STR result found in a Big Y test, they don't match - different values. In other words, because of the testing technology, STR results found in a Big Y test are less precise.

    Is FTDNA happy that this is the case, because then they can sell STR tests separately from Big Y tests? Probably so. Would you be happy having an STR result that's not fully reliable? That's something you have to answer for yourself, but many people trying to find their closest matches would not be comfortable with that situation.

    Leave a comment:


  • mlcarson
    replied
    More like the Big-Y will get all of the Y-111 information but not at a confidence level that satisfies FTDNA -- especially when it cuts into profits of the Y-111 test. If Big-Y misses a Y-111 marker, what do you do with regard to Y-111 matching? I think you'd just make it a null value and sell another test to get the true value. They already do that with their other Y-tests. My DYS425 is NULL from the Y-67 test and I could order the DYF371X test to find out why.

    From a marketing perspective, I think they could make the Big-Y more attractive in finding a way for it to include a Y-111 so that it would be an all inclusive Y-DNA test.

    Leave a comment:


  • MMaddi
    replied
    Originally posted by BobbyQ View Post
    The BigY doesn't use an STR test as a "backbone"? How about individual SNPs or packs you purchase, are they added to your STR test at specific locations? Or are STR tests and SNP tests completely independent of each other?

    Thanks for any info!
    Yes, they're independent. Although they're both markers on the y chromosome that can be tested, they're not the same and different primers and testing technologies are used to get results for each of them.

    Think of apples and oranges. Both are fruits, but they're not the same, as immortalized in the saying, "you can't compare apples and oranges."

    Leave a comment:


  • BobbyQ
    replied
    Sorry, I'm still trying to get this straight.

    So there's absolutely no advantage to upgrading from the FTDNA 67 marker test to 111 markers before you take the BigY? The BigY is completely independent of the STR Y-DNA test?

    I'm waiting on my 67 to 111 marker upgrade and thought it would be wise to wait until it's completed before getting the BigY. But I guess that's not true?

    The BigY doesn't use an STR test as a "backbone"? How about individual SNPs or packs you purchase, are they added to your STR test at specific locations? Or are STR tests and SNP tests completely independent of each other?

    Thanks for any info!
    Last edited by BobbyQ; 11 April 2017, 02:26 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • mwwalsh
    replied
    I recommend that you get to 111 Y STRs for one of the two Big Y testers for your Most Distant Known Ancestor.

    This positions you will in the matching database and encourages other matches as they come to test for the SNPs you want them to test for.

    Leave a comment:


  • Armando
    replied
    You're welcome. I'm happy that I was able to help. Your investigation is awesome. I'm glad that you are sharing it with people in the other forum and I look forward to learning of the outcome.

    Leave a comment:


  • A.Morup
    replied
    Thanks!

    Thanks to Armando for the link to the U152-project. If one can not avoid starting with an STR test, then a Y12 must be the cheapest way to go...

    Thanks
    Anders

    Leave a comment:


  • The_Contemplator
    replied
    After you send back the DNA collection kit and the Y12 gets batched, the Big Y will show up as an option to order for that kit. If you are concerned with costs, you can wait for a sale before ordering the Big Y. In the meantime, you can still order the Y12 to have the option of ordering the Big Y when a sale appears. Next sale could be near DNA Day (April 25). We don't know ahead of time what gets discounted as they change things every year.

    I suspect one of the reasons they want a Y test done first is to prevent a woman from taking a test that will fail with no possibility of a refund. There could be other reasons.

    Leave a comment:


  • Armando
    replied
    Originally posted by A.Morup View Post
    Hi Honeychuck!

    Thanks, but if the person has never tested with FTDNA, there will not be a Y12.

    If I just want the Big Y, it adds to the costs, if I have to pay for a Y12 or a Y37, just to get the permission to buy a Big Y.

    Is it really the rules of the game?

    Kind regards
    Anders
    Yes, it really is the rules of the game. You might be able to order BigY immediately after ordering YDNA12 at https://www.familytreedna.com/group-...Group=R1b-U152

    This problem was discussed before at http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=40711

    Leave a comment:


  • Armando
    replied
    Originally posted by prairielad View Post
    I believe you can still order yDNA 12 through projects and/or phoning FTDNA....
    He can order Y12 by going to https://www.familytreedna.com/group-...Group=R1b-U152 then clicking on order now next where it says Y-DNA12. There is no need to call FTDNA.

    Leave a comment:


  • prairielad
    replied
    I believe you can still order yDNA 12 through projects and/or phoning FTDNA....

    Leave a comment:


  • J Honeychuck
    replied
    I misunderstood.

    From the web site, it looks like the answer is no.

    Leave a comment:


  • A.Morup
    replied
    Hi Honeychuck!

    Thanks, but if the person has never tested with FTDNA, there will not be a Y12.

    If I just want the Big Y, it adds to the costs, if I have to pay for a Y12 or a Y37, just to get the permission to buy a Big Y.

    Is it really the rules of the game?

    Kind regards
    Anders

    Leave a comment:


  • J Honeychuck
    replied
    Yes. I ordered BigY for an account with just 12 STRs.

    Leave a comment:

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