BigY vs STR Stories

[Dave123]

I just checked my SNP tree and I am "Presumed Positive" for E-L542.

I am 16-18 for 385a/b, while he is 15-17. But this counts for 1-step, as these two markers move in tandem. He and I are 9 and 10, respectively, for marker 511, 23 and 21 for marker 413a, and 23 and 24 for marker 481.

[Dave123]

67 match with same surname

Several years ago I had a match that was 5 steps out at 67 markers, who shared my Schroeder surname. His furthest back paternal ancestor was Luke Schroeder, born in England in 1800. I checked my paternal line tree, and discovered that Kord Schroeder, the brother of my gr-gr-grandfather, Jakob Schroeder, was born in 1775 (in Lower Saxony), and the Genealogy.net site showed "No Children".

The "No Children" label also showed for my gr-grandfather, Johann Schroeder, since he emigrated to Brooklyn, NY in 1866, and the Genealogy.net site doesn't keep track of emigres. So I consider Kord Schroeder as a good candidate to be Luke Schroeder's father, presumably moving to England as an adult.

Our STR results are listed at the Schroeder Surname Project: http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/schroeder/results

He shows positive for E-L542, at the above site, but I don't believe I am positive for that SNP. I will have to check.

I have not yet done the Big-Y, but plan to do so, and will encourage my match to do the same.

[1798]

It does not matter how many YSTRs one tests you will always need a SNP test to determine the relationship, so the BigY is the most resolute test for a male.

[1798]

This thread was intended for concrete evidence proving that BigY is more valuable than STR testing. Do you have an example of a group of people matching at the 67 marker level and BigY proving or disproving relationships and/or changing the date the common ancestor lived?

Some of the Z156 testers who are close in haplotype do not have the exact same YSNPs. I am all for the BigY and I am taking it as soon as it comes down in price. If I was starting out today to dna test I would take the BigY first.

[Armando]

A long time ago I wrote that YSTRs were unreliable for estimating how two men were related and some people are only catching up now. For them the penny has finally dropped.

This thread was intended for concrete evidence proving that BigY is more valuable than STR testing. Do you have an example of a group of people matching at the 67 marker level and BigY proving or disproving relationships and/or changing the date the common ancestor lived?

[1798]

STRs? That is only the first level approximation.

Various markers have very different mutation rates.

W. (Mr.)

A long time ago I wrote that YSTRs were unreliable for estimating how two men were related and some people are only catching up now. For them the penny has finally dropped.

[dna]

What happened to the one mutation equals one hundred years theory?

STRs? That is only the first level approximation.

Various markers have very different mutation rates.

W. (Mr.)

[1798]

Strictly speaking this is not a success story

Two families sharing R-M269, when comparing 67 STR markers had 24 mismatches... TiP gives 1.72% for TMRCA within the last 24 generations, so we could have debated it ad nauseam.

Comparison of Big Y results showed that L151 was the last common SNP, so according to YFull the TMRCA was around 5000 ybp.

The family question was definitely answered, however, there still many nice conversation topics for the cocktail parties

W. (Mr.)

What happened to the one mutation equals one hundred years theory?

[dna]

24 mismatches really is a huge difference and they wouldn't have shown as matches at the 67 marker level.

You are right. They were not showing.

However, within a surname project, as an administrator, I could use TiP for non-matches. 1.72% for 24 generations (roughly 720 years) was a ripe ground for the family reunion discussions how the branches split 700+ years ago.

And I preferred the time to be spent on identification of people on photographs, graves, family stories from decades ago etc.

W. (Mr.)

P.S.
Inside one of the branches there was a mismatch of 3 markers between 4th cousins, so we could see that mismatches do occur.

[Armando]

Strictly speaking this is not a success story

Two families sharing R-M269, when comparing 67 STR markers had 24 mismatches... TiP gives 1.72% for TMRCA within the last 24 generations, so we could have debated it ad nauseam.

Comparison of Big Y results showed that L151 was the last common SNP, so according to YFull the TMRCA was around 5000 ybp.

The family question was definitely answered, however, there still many nice conversation topics for the cocktail parties

W. (Mr.)

24 mismatches really is a huge difference and they wouldn't have shown as matches at the 67 marker level.

[dna]

As it was always obvious to me , I had forgotten to include in the above post that the surname was the same!

W. (Mr.)

[dna]

Strictly speaking this is not a success story

Two families sharing R-M269, when comparing 67 STR markers had 24 mismatches... TiP gives 1.72% for TMRCA within the last 24 generations, so we could have debated it ad nauseam.

Comparison of Big Y results showed that L151 was the last common SNP, so according to YFull the TMRCA was around 5000 ybp.

The family question was definitely answered, however, there still many nice conversation topics for the cocktail parties

W. (Mr.)

[Armando]

We have been using BigY to explore a cluster of 26 men in our surname project who are R1b-Z49. We have four results to date with two more in process. So far we have confirmed a common ancestor in Ireland within the past 800 years and a split in the line between two groups about 600 years ago, characterized by a single SNP and differing values for DYS388. We have also determined that two men with a different surname are direct paternal descendants of this family and that the NPE in their line took place some time in the late 18th or early 19th century. When the other results come in we plan to design a test panel to evaluate as many of the other men as possible.

Jim

Thanks for sharing Jim. What is the range for 67 markers?

[jbarry6899]

Does any one else have any stories? The more stories the better.

We have been using BigY to explore a cluster of 26 men in our surname project who are R1b-Z49. We have four results to date with two more in process. So far we have confirmed a common ancestor in Ireland within the past 800 years and a split in the line between two groups about 600 years ago, characterized by a single SNP and differing values for DYS388. We have also determined that two men with a different surname are direct paternal descendants of this family and that the NPE in their line took place some time in the late 18th or early 19th century. When the other results come in we plan to design a test panel to evaluate as many of the other men as possible.

Jim

[Armando]

Does any one else have any stories? The more stories the better.