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K1c2 origins

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  • K1c2 origins

    I think from the mutations, my cousins mtDNA is K1c2.
    16224c, 16311c, 16320t, 16519c
    73g, 146c, 152c, 263g, 315.1c, -498

    Her mitosearch is B83DK

    Our maternal family line is from Essex, England. c1780 onwards. All in the towns of Colchester, Wivenhoe and East Donyland, which all are within a few miles of each other.

    Im just wondering where the other K1c2 families are from.

  • #2
    Hi rivergirl and all,

    You may have noticed that I published recently in the 16048A thread two maps with the countries of origin. I have now done the same for K1c2 and it's parent K1c. Please look at the other thread to see where the data for these maps comes from. For the two new maps I used only high-resolution (HVR1 plus HVR2) results. Any haplotype not represented in the K Project will not be included on the maps, so some countries mentioned in MitoSearch are absent. Those would include Russia, Slovakia and the Czech Republic.

    The two maps are at:
    K1c+: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....a-k/k1cmap.png
    K1c2: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....-k/k1c2map.png

    The first map is labeled K1c+, which simply means any haplotype in K1c except those in K1c2. K1c1 requires a full-sequence test to be accurately determined. By far the largest node is for Portugal, with 8.33% of the mtDNA entries in FTDNA's database in K1c+. However, the percentage represents only two entries. I don't think this map demonstrates an origin for K1c, but the wide distribution obviously reflects the greater age than for K1c2 in the second map. I've expressed my opinion before that the British Isles countries would have a significantly larger percentage except that many of our British ancestors came here so long ago that the maternal paper trail no longer exists. I've also pointed out the long-term political connections between England and Portugal, so perhaps those two from Portugal could be traced back to England further back in time. That's just a guess.

    The second map for K1c2 has fewer countries - Portugal is gone - demonstrating the relative youth of K1c2. K1c2 actually has 48 total entries compared to 38 for K1c+; many of those listed USA, Canada or Unknown and so are not represented on the maps. Denmark at 2% is highest on this map, but that's for only one person! An interesting fact is that for the modal haplotype (the six basic K mutations plus 16320T, 146C, 152C and 498-) 16 of 18 or 89% are from the British Isles. To me, that suggests a British founding of K1c2. In contrast, only six of 16 or 38% of the K1c+ modal entries are from the British Isles, leaving it's origin in doubt.

    Bill Hurst


    • #3
      Wondering about Time Frames

      Hi Bill Hurst,

      I read your K1c+ and K1c2 maps with interest, as my Mt haplotype has recently been identified as K1c2. I am wondering what the difference in time is between the two maps.

      I have nine mutations not including 522s and C195T.

      My proven research goes back only to my g-g-g grandmother, but her family has belonged to endogamous communitites for quite a number of generations. There is oral history of the family living in Portugal and Spain prior to 1492.

      I know your information is limited, but do we have any way of pinpointing when the families indicated on your map may have departed from Portugal?

      Thank you for your help,