Different Companies, different haplogroups?

[Melissa122]

Hi,

I got my results back from living dna and they list my haplogroup as H1AO, FT has my HG as H1AG. At least they both agree I come from H1a lol. I am guessing the FT would be more accurate? (since they give you a confirmed badge lol) Just curious if something like this has happened to others. Is there a way to validate this or somewhere to run my mtdna to confirm? I was a little surprised by this. Thanks!
(I know autosomal you data can be interpreted differently from company to company, but I just assumed HGs mapping was more exact )

[KATM]

From your post in another thread, you have taken the mtDNAFullSequence test. FTDNA's Full Sequence test is just that, it tests the full mitochondrial sequence. Living DNA does not do this, rather they most likely (as does 23andMe) select only certain markers for their chip which will generally narrow down to a fairly accurate mtDNA haplogroup (also do this for Y-DNA haplogroup).

Bottom line is, I would trust your H1ag from FTDNA over the H1ao that LivingDNA predicts for you.

You can try James Lick's haplogroup analysis tool, but you will first need to download your mtDNA FASTA file from your FTDNA account. I don't think the tool works with Living DNA files, but you could contact him and see if it's possible. Read the FAQs before you use the tool.

You can also check Ian Logan's website's link for GenBank sequences, and then the next to last link on that page to check the details of sequences on GenBank for H1ag and H1ao.

[KATM]

From Roberta Estes' 2017 post "LivingDNA Product Review," in which she wrote:

Living DNA claims to have a 3-in-1 ancestry test, meaning ethnicity, mitochondrial and Y DNA, which isn’t exactly true, but it’s not entirely false either. It’s a matter of perception.

LivingDNA is a scan test that scans specified locations in your genome. Haplogroups, both Y and mitochondrial, are defined by specific locations that carry mutations. LivingDNA scans for Y and mitochondrial haplogroup mutations at some level, but they do not offer anything more for Y and mitochondrial DNA than the haplogroup designation. In other words, no detail and no matching. The LivingDNA results are in the same ballpark as 23andMe or the Genographic project, but much less detailed than Family Tree DNA.

[Melissa122]

From your post in another thread, you have taken the mtDNAFullSequence test. FTDNA's Full Sequence test is just that, it tests the full mitochondrial sequence. Living DNA does not do this, rather they most likely (as does 23andMe) select only certain markers for their chip which will generally narrow down to a fairly accurate mtDNA haplogroup (also do this for Y-DNA haplogroup).

Bottom line is, I would trust your H1ag from FTDNA over the H1ao that LivingDNA predicts for you.

You can try James Lick's haplogroup analysis tool, but you will first need to download your mtDNA FASTA file from your FTDNA account. I don't think the tool works with Living DNA files, but you could contact him and see if it's possible. Read the FAQs before you use the tool.

You can also check Ian Logan's website's link for GenBank sequences, and then the next to last link on that page to check the details of sequences on GenBank for H1ag and H1ao.

Thanks KATM as always, as I muddle through learning all this. Everything makes perfect sense, just seeing that on living DNA threw me off for a moment lol. I found James Lick's tool and it also confirmed what I already knew my Hg is H1ag lol. (As I mentioned before I post some of these questions in case they end up being helpful for someone new to this. A lot of the posts that seem to get any activity are more advanced topics, so someone has to hold it down for noobies lol. If you don't research this stuff or ask, one could end up making a lot of wrong assumptions about ancestry. I'm still sort of surprised at the margin of error that exists that you don't know about until you start learning

If I may ask, I have not found a lot of information on my HG, just mainly on H1. I am in a h1ag project, but where would be the best place to try and find a date of when this haplogroup came to be and maybe any research on it. (I did click on your link and saw the mutation mapping but looking for more "origin" info. You always post the most helpful links )

[KATM]

If I may ask, I have not found a lot of information on my HG, just mainly on H1. I am in a h1ag project, but where would be the best place to try and find a date of when this haplogroup came to be and maybe any research on it. (I did click on your link and saw the mutation mapping but looking for more "origin" info. You always post the most helpful links )

• Haplogroup.org is one place that would have age ranges for haplogroups, but much of the site has been offline for a while. But I did find one page with information for H1ag there, and it says this: "Haplogroup H1ag is a branch on the maternal tree of human kind. Its age is between 2,000 and 6,600 years (Behar et al., 2012b)."
• There is also YFull's mtDNA Tree, which is still under construction. The estimate there for H1ag is "formed 15000 ybp, TMRCA 8900 ybp." (ybp = years before present; TMRCA = Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor)
• Eupedia has a page for mtDNA H haplogroup, which you might find interesting reading generally, but all it shows specifically for H1ag is "found in northern Europe."

There is one page at the Haplogroup.org site discussing the mtDNA Tree launched by YFull, from 2019. I noticed in the comments one by the site owner, Rebekah Canada, regarding how accurate the YFull mtDNA estimates of TMRCA are, or at least were at the time of her post:

They have not published their method yet. I think everything looks too old so far. I do know from papers that some branches like H are usually adjusted to account for the rapid Bronze age expansion in Europe and over-sampling.

You can try occasional web searches for your haplogroup, to see if any new scientific papers have been published about it.

If you are inclined, you could submit your mtDNA file to GenBank. Ian Logan's website has directions for doing that. The more mtDNA sequences that are submitted, then eventually more subclades can be determined. The administrators of the H1ag project may be able to advise you if you have any notable mutations.

Thanks for the compliment. I just post links I have found over the years, when I think the linked pages will explain things better than I can, or add to the discussion.

[Melissa122]

Thank You! This is perfect. In my humble opinion 8,900 years seems very old as well, although I thought I read H1 was about 15,000 years with H being around 22,000 so maybe it's right. My main goal is to go as far back as I can on my British maternal line (following mtdna, but obviously not able to go back thousands of years lol). As far as genbank goes, I do have some "extra" mutations so I am going to submit the email and go from there. I wish there more details than "Northern Europe" but I suppose that is the reason for having people build up places like Gen Bank.
Thanks Again for Everything.

[Melissa122]

I emailed them and they said they will accept my data and it will take about 4 weeks to post. Thanks for showing me that! Now I just need a bunch of people to submit theirs as well. But hey at least it’s out there.

[KATM]

Melissa122, mtDNA is generally best used to solve a specific genealogical problem. One example is shown in the video "DNA Stories: A Tale of Two Sisters featuring Bill Hurst," featuring the administrator of the K mtDNA Haplogroup Project, Bill Hurst.

With autosomal DNA (atDNA), we generally are "fishing" for relatives. We put our test out there (line & hook) to see what matches we get (fish). With mtDNA, however, not enough people have tested yet to use the "fishing" approach, although if you wait long enough perhaps someone will turn up as a verifiable relative. That is what most people do. It may depend upon if enough people test for a particular haplogroup or subclade.

What you (and your matches) can do to help identify connections is to:

• Have a good family tree at FTDNA, going as far back as you can on your maternal line, as well as knowing as many collateral relatives (sisters, aunts), especially those who share that direct maternal line for mtDNA.
• Make sure you fill out your Earliest Known Relative, and enter all the birth surnames of the women in your direct maternal line.
• Enter the location of your direct maternal Earliest Known Relative.

These things are explained in "Four Quick Tips to Make Your Mitochondrial DNA Results More Useful," by Roberta Estes. It is good advice, and will help with your Family Finder matches as well.

I'm glad you will have your mtDNA at GenBank, but don't rush out and do things just because I suggest them. I hope you read up on it, and made an educated decision (as all our decisions about our DNA should be).

[Melissa122]

Thanks katm for these articles. No worries about rushed decisions as I was well aware this would make my sequence public. Going into DNA testing, I knew I wanted to contribute to science in my own little way, I just didn't know what platforms would be best to do that. Since my birth name isn't published with the sequence, I felt comfortable putting it out there. My goal with all this (DNA testing in general and genealogy research) is to be able to provide something of substance to my Daughter when she is old enough to enjoy and understand genetic genealogy