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K1a3- No matches!

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  • K1a3- No matches!

    Hi guys. I haven't been able to find any relevant information on the haplogroup k1a3. Anyone with the same haplogroup? If so, what is you mother's ancestry? The only things I have found is that some jewish people have this mtdna and that, although not certain, it is said to have a Near Eastern origin although I am European. I also have no HVR1+HVR2+CR matches...
    ~Thanks

  • #2
    Hi KA13 - I'm also mtDNA haplogroup K1a3. As far as I've been able to trace it, my direct maternal line is from Malta, at least to my earliest known ancestor in that line (b. abt. 1822). I suspect if I were able to trace back further, her ancestry long ago might go back to Sicily or elsewhere in Italy, but that is speculation on my part.

    You need to realize that mtDNA changes very slowly, so over many thousands of years K1a3 traveled from Anatolia to Europe. I have to look up a map tool I came across recently, so I'll post more if I find it. That might show the path of K through time, to K1a3.

    According to Wikipedia, at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_K_%28mtDNA%29 (and elsewhere):
    Ashkenazi mtDNA K clusters into three subclades seldom found in non-Jews: K1a1b1a, K1a9, and K2a2a.
    I have not found our subclade K1a3 to be mentioned in this group.

    Eupedia's page for mtDNA haplogroup K has a little bit of information: basically just
    K1a3 : found in Early Neolitic Anatolia.
    The pages at Haplogroup.org have been offline for a while, but were supposed to be back up after Sept. 10th. I guess it's still "after" Sept. 10th! What I previously saved from that page was:
    K1a3

    Summary

    Age: 11,100 ±3,500(Behar et al. 2012b)
    Origin: Undetermined
    Mutations: A13117G
    Parent Branch: K1a
    Descendant branch(s): K1a3a

    Background

    Haplogroup K1a3 is a branch on the maternal tree of human kind. Its age is between 7,600 and 14,700 years (Behar et al. 2012b).
    I know those don't provide a lot, but at least it's something.
    Last edited by KATM; 2nd November 2019, 10:13 PM.

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    • #3
      Okay, I found the map tool I mentioned above: SNP Tracker. Type in your haplogroup subclade (whether Y-DNA or mtDNA), click on the male/female symbol to get the correct one (for Y or mt), then "Go."
      • For our mtDNA K1a3 haplogroup, you will first see the path as it progresses from Africa (mtDNA haplogroup L), changes through N, R, and U, until it arrives as K in Anatolia (aka Asia Minor).
      • If you click on the three lines at top right, you'll see the Map Options menu, where you can select "Zoom to Europe," among other choices. This will show a dot for K1a3 appearing in northern Italy.
      • If you then choose "Show Descendants," you'll see where K1a3 traveled to other places in Europe, probably changing to K1a3a and so on.
      • The legend in the lower left shows time periods by color, to match the colored dots on the map.
      • You can save an image of a map if you'd like.
      Apparently the "new" feature, "Show by County," (which is actually Show by Country) does not have a button to specify Y or mt-DNA, so assumes Y-DNA. Thus, we can't see results for mtDNA K1a3 with it.

      The "Show" (with walking figure) option will walk you through the haplogroup's evolution over time, showing the ages, various ancient cultures, land and glacial periods, etc. This is probably best used, at least at first, with "Zoom to Europe" turned off, so you can see the figure moving along. Otherwise, it will take a large part of the animation time until you see the figure on screen.

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      • #4
        Thank you for your answer. I suppose one day we'll be assigned an yet to be discovered sub-branch of k1a3. On Ian logan's site half the people on the library with the haplo k1a3 were ashkenazi jewish, although I know it's not an ex libris jewish haplo...

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        • #5
          On that K1a3 page, I see 6 out of 29 marked as Ashkenazi, all submitted by "Costa" (probably a person in a lab, university, or other research group). You can also see that of the 29 submissions listed, 6 are Uyghur - there are just as many K1a3 Uyghur as Ashkenazi, and all those Uyghur are submitted by "Zheng." It all depends upon people actually submitting their file to GenBank, in order to get enough (at least 3) sequences that match, in order to assign a new subclade.

          Consider submitting your mtDNA FASTA file to GenBank (theNational Center for Biotechnology Information, part of the National Institutes of Health in the U.S.). Since you have visited Ian Logan's site, his page for instructions on how to submit might interest you. Only the person who has tested and had their mtDNA results can submit their own results, and submissions are anonymous (once published - you will receive a couple of emails from a GenBank administrator, confirming that the file you submit is yours). Your submission may help determine a new subclade of K1a3, who knows? Also, "What should you do with your full sequence mtDNA results?" has a couple of important points about sharing your mtDNA information.

          Roberta Estes discusses how subclades are assigned in "Mitochondrial DNA: Part 3 - Haplogroups Unraveled," under the heading "Haplogroup Assignment Process." She mentions in that post that she will discuss submitting to GenBank in a future post, but I don't think she's gotten around to it yet - I haven't found it. Another good post on the topic of how new subclades are determined is "Mitochondrial DNA – Birthing Haplogroup Subclades," in which Haplogroup K Project administrator William Hurst contributes a section.

          Hang in there, you will get some matches eventually! Have you joined the mtDNA Haplogroup K project at FTDNA? See ISOGG's description of it, or the "About" page for the project at FTDNA.

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