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  • MtDNA matches

    I just received my results of the full sequence test. I have 3 matches, all on HVR1 only. My maternal haplogroup is B2 and my matches haplogroup is B4'5. What does this mean? Do we definitely share a common maternal ancestor? Documentation suggests it is a strong possibility, however I am unsure because of the difference in haplogroup, though I know it is a subgroup?

  • #2
    Somebody who matches you on only the HVR1 screen and not the HVR2 screen is definitely too genetically far from you to make any genealogical determinations other than sometimes broad population movements. I belong to a European subgroup within H and I can tell you that while my HVR2 and Full Coding Region matches make sense and some of them surely share ancestors with me within the past 300-600 years, especially my exact matches, most of my HVR1-only matches are not useful at all and some of them are separated from me from multiple thousands of years; some of them are not even within my subbranch H7 but listed with other subgroups like H1e1a, H28a...

    Do you know which Amerindian tribe your matriline represents? Does that seem to be the region/country/tribe where those other matches come from?
    Last edited by khazaria; 30 March 2018, 04:51 PM.

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    • #3
      Yes, Mvskoke Creek. We have well documented ancestry back to close family members, all in and around Hickory Ground Tribal Town just prior to removal. We descend from Sehoy March and. I have multiple lines of Creek ancestry, including from Sehoy. I just don't have my maternal line proven other than my haplotype of B2. Other documented descendants of Sehoy who have tested are also B2 or B4'5. My main question is the B2 and B4'5 haplotypes. Since I know people who are well documented maternal descendants of Sehoy, and some are B2 and some are B4'5, can this be possible? We are fortunate to have well-proven documentation to the same Wind Clan family all from the same place and time. I also don't know if my matches had the full sequence test or not? I did the full sequence. Would that make a difference? I have 2 matches on HVR1 and 1 on HVR2 F2F. this is the info beside their names on my match list, so I wonder if they would show up as matches only on the sequence which they themselves had tested?

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      • #4
        This is how it appears next to the names of my 3 matches.
        Attached Files

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        • #5
          @WindClanKen, I hope you come back

          It is complicated. Not very complicated, but nothing straightforward.

          Let's start with trivia. Those who had only HVR1 test might only match you in HVR1.

          Their mtDNA haplogroup B4'5 is ancestral to your B2.

          With only HVR1 results it is not possible to have the same detailed haplogroup assignment, as it is with the test that examines entire mtDNA (your full sequence test). Actually, FTDNA most likely had to test some additional SNPs within the coding region in order to be able to assign them to B4'5.

          It is impossible to say how closely you are related to those three matches. The age of haplogroup B2 was estimated to be 16818.5 years (with a standard deviation of 2619.9 years), the age of B4'5 around 50 thousands years.
          See pages 120 and 121 of supplemental material
          http://www.cell.com/cms/attachment/2...52800/mmc1.pdf
          of the following paper
          Doron M. Behar, Mannis van Oven, Saharon Rosset, Mait Metspalu, Eva-Liis Loogväli, Nuno M. Silva, Toomas Kivisild, Antonio Torroni, Richard Villems
          A “Copernican” Reassessment of the Human Mitochondrial DNA Tree from Its Root
          The American Journal of Human Genetics, Volume 90, Issue 5; April 6, 2012; pages 675–684
          https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ajhg.2012.03.002
          http://www.cell.com/ajhg/pdf/S0002-9...%2900146-2.pdf
          It will not be known how close to you those three matches are until they complete the full sequence test.


          HVR2 results of the person who had HVR1&HVR2 test (labelled HVR2 in your screenshot) are not known to you. In particular it is not known whether the HVR2 differences are unimportant or important ones. Thus I am treating her or him as if taking only HVR1 test.


          To see how B4'5 relates to B2, please go to the following site http://phylod3.herokuapp.com/

          And click one-by-one on the following
          • L2'3'4'6
          • L3'4'6
          • L3'4
          • L3
          • N
          • R
          • B4'5
          • B4
          • B4b'd'e'j
          • B4b
          • B2 ( that click is optional , if you had chosen to click, please click on B2 once again, so we have a simpler view )
          That nicely shows how B4'5 and B2 are related. Unfortunately the part of the tree before B4'5 is not 100% accurate, as it is based on an old model from year 2009 (Build 7).

          You can see the current (Build 16, made in 2016) state of haplogroups at http://www.phylotree.org/tree/B.htm. Use your browser search within page (usually Ctrl-F) to find B2 (that is why I prefer inaccurate, but nicely laid out first webpage...).

          The Family Tree DNA Learning Center might mislead you since their page https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/...-tree-dna-use/ acknowledges FTDNA use of Build 14 from 2012, but I think last year FTDNA switched to the current Build 16 from 2016.



          Good luck with your research - Mr. W.


          P.S.
          You may want to read
          New Native American Mitochondrial DNA Haplogroups by Roberta Estes
          https://dna-explained.com/2017/03/02...a-haplogroups/

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          • #6
            Originally posted by dna View Post
            [----] With only HVR1 results it is not possible to have the same detailed haplogroup assignment, as it is with the test that examines entire mtDNA (your full sequence test). Actually, FTDNA most likely had to test some additional SNPs within the coding region in order to be able to assign them to B4'5. [----]
            I have found the following third party reference

            Determining accurate haplogroup matches with only HVR results can be challenging in many cases. In order to make a more accurate haplogroup determination, Family Tree DNA also performs a test panel of 22 SNPs in the mtDNA coding region. These SNPs cover major branch points in the phylogenetic tree and helps ensure that at least the major haplogroup (the first letter) can be determined. However, FTDNA does not report the results of these SNPs to the customer.

            Source (dated 2012-04-30) https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap-new/FAQ-advanced.html


            It is possible that the above is also stated somewhere within the FTDNA Learning Center, but I am unable to find it.


            Mr. W.

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