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V(C72T) origins?

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  • V(C72T) origins?

    Hi all,

    I just recieved my MtDNA Plus results back and I'm haplogroup V. First of all, is this a common haplogroup? I've read its somewhat rare however its one of the most common in Europe?

    I decided to put my markers through James Lick's mthap test and I have three best possible matches, the best being V(C72T). I compared my markers to those in the V haplogroup project and I match those who have tested positive for V(C72T).

    I'm only new to mtDNA and am having trouble finding out what C72T means. Is there a particular region this originates from?

    Here's a copy of the V section from the report:

    2) V(C72T)

    Defining Markers for haplogroup V(C72T):
    HVR2: 263G
    CR: 750G 1438G 2706G 4580A 4769G 7028T 8860G 15326G 15904T
    HVR1: 16298C

    Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup V(C72T) (plus extra markers):
    H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 72C 16298C ⇨ HV0 ⇨ 15904T ⇨ HV0a ⇨ 4580A ⇨ V ⇨ 72T ⇨ V(C72T) ⇨ 152C (309.1C) (309.2C) (315.1C)

    Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
    Matches(3): 72T 263G 16298C
    Extras(1): 152C (309.1C) (309.2C) (315.1C)
    Untested(9): 750 1438 2706 4580 4769 7028 8860 15326 15904
    Any thoughts would be great

  • #2
    It seems C72T appears in two places, V18 and HV0f? someone can probably interpret this better than me.

    http://www.phylotree.org/tree/subtree_R0.htm

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by jtoml3 View Post
      Here's a copy of the V section from the report:
      It looks like you pasted the 2nd most likely prediction from the tool. What was #1?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Sarmat View Post
        It looks like you pasted the 2nd most likely prediction from the tool. What was #1?
        Here are the full results.

        Markers found (shown as differences to rCRS):

        HVR2: 152C 263G (309.1C) (309.2C) (315.1C) 522.1A 522.2C
        CR:
        HVR1: 16298C


        Best mtDNA Haplogroup Matches:
        1) H2a2a2
        Defining Markers for haplogroup H2a2a2:
        HVR2: 152C 263G
        CR: 6716G
        HVR1:
        Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup H2a2a2 (plus extra markers):
        H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 152C 6716G ⇨ H2a2a2 ⇨ (309.1C) (309.2C) (315.1C) 522.1A 522.2C 16298C
        Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
        Matches(2): 152C 263G
        Extras(3): (309.1C) (309.2C) (315.1C) 522.1A 522.2C 16298C
        Untested(1): 6716



        2) V(C72T)
        Defining Markers for haplogroup V(C72T):
        HVR2: 263G
        CR: 750G 1438G 2706G 4580A 4769G 7028T 8860G 15326G 15904T
        HVR1: 16298C
        Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup V(C72T) (plus extra markers):
        H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 72C 16298C ⇨ HV0 ⇨ 15904T ⇨ HV0a ⇨ 4580A ⇨ V ⇨ 72T ⇨ V(C72T) ⇨ 152C (309.1C) (309.2C) (315.1C) 522.1A 522.2C
        Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
        Matches(3): 72T 263G 16298C
        Extras(3): 152C (309.1C) (309.2C) (315.1C) 522.1A 522.2C
        Untested(9): 750 1438 2706 4580 4769 7028 8860 15326 15904


        3) H(T152C)
        Defining Markers for haplogroup H(T152C):
        HVR2: 152C 263G
        CR: 750G 1438G 4769G 8860G 15326G
        HVR1:
        Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup H(T152C) (plus extra markers):
        H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 152C ⇨ H(T152C) ⇨ (309.1C) (309.2C) (315.1C) 522.1A 522.2C 16298C
        Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
        Matches(2): 152C 263G
        Extras(3): (309.1C) (309.2C) (315.1C) 522.1A 522.2C 16298C
        Untested(5): 750 1438 4769 8860 15326

        Comment


        • #5
          Without the Coding Region results nobody can properly assign a haplogroup. There is really nothing else but upgrading to the Full Mitochondrial Sequence (FMS) test that can help you.

          The reason you are in the haplogroup V, and not H, is that FTDNA tests additional SNPs beyond HVR1 & HVR2 specifically to allow for a reliable haplogroup assignment/placement. FTDNA considers that their value-add.

          W. (Mr.)

          P.S.
          It seems C72T appears in two places, V18 and HV0f?
          Yes, there are quite many SNPs like that (that they appear in different halogroups). No, I do not know why the mtDNA tree branches (halogroups) are designed the way they are designed.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by dna View Post
            Without the Coding Region results nobody can properly assign a haplogroup. There is really nothing else but upgrading to the Full Mitochondrial Sequence (FMS) test that can help you.

            The reason you are in the haplogroup V, and not H, is that FTDNA tests additional SNPs beyond HVR1 & HVR2 specifically to allow for a reliable haplogroup assignment/placement. FTDNA considers that their value-add.

            W. (Mr.)

            P.S.Yes, there are quite many SNPs like that (that they appear in different halogroups). No, I do not know why the mtDNA tree branches (halogroups) are designed the way they are designed.
            So if I was to do a FMS I could be reassigned to H? Or because of their additional SNP testing there's a good chance I'd remain in V regardless. I might have to do FMS to get some more definitive answers.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jtoml3 View Post
              So if I was to do a FMS I could be reassigned to H? Or because of their additional SNP testing there's a good chance I'd remain in V regardless. I might have to do FMS to get some more definitive answers.
              I understand that FTDNA tests enough of additional SNPs to reliably determine the major haplogroup (the first letter), so you will stay at V.

              When looking at http://www.phylotree.org/tree/subtree_R0.htm, it appears that to be in the halpgroup V in addition to results from HVR1 & HVR2, you also need to have A11719G, T14766C, C15904T and G4580A. You can retry James Lick's mthap test while adding them.

              W. (Mr.)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dna View Post
                I understand that FTDNA tests enough of additional SNPs to reliably determine the major haplogroup (the first letter), so you will stay at V.

                When looking at http://www.phylotree.org/tree/subtree_R0.htm, it appears that to be in the halpgroup V in addition to results from HVR1 & HVR2, you also need to have A11719G, T14766C, C15904T and G4580A. You can retry James Lick's mthap test while adding them.

                W. (Mr.)
                Excellent. I've ordered the FMS test so hopefully that sheds some light. My earliest maternal ancestor I have found was from Ireland so I'm curious to see how that fits. A few places on the internet have said its a rare haplogroup. Is this true?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by jtoml3 View Post
                  Excellent. I've ordered the FMS test so hopefully that sheds some light.
                  Glad to be able to help.
                  Originally posted by jtoml3 View Post
                  My earliest maternal ancestor I have found was from Ireland so I'm curious to see how that fits. A few places on the internet have said its a rare haplogroup. Is this true?
                  I have no idea, I am only trying to use mtDNA to confirm membership in specific branches of our family tree in the last 200 years.

                  W. (Mr.)

                  P.S. Haplogroup H is said to be a popular one. One of the kits, I am taking care of, is in halogroup H, and there are more than eleven thousands (11,000) matches at HVR1 level.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I got my FMS results back. Turns out I am V-C72T! so that prediction tool does have some truth.

                    How common is V-C72T!? I haven't seen much of it around.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      V19

                      Originally posted by jtoml3 View Post
                      I got my FMS results back. Turns out I am V-C72T! so that prediction tool does have some truth.

                      How common is V-C72T!? I haven't seen much of it around.

                      Welcome to V. I had the full sequence test done, and I am V19.

                      Best regards, Douglas W. Fisher

                      Paternal: Z372+
                      Maternal: V19

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The most I can find is some info on the PhyloTree, which states " Mutations that are reversions to an ancestral state (back mutations) are indicated with an exclamation mark (!)". So is C72T! a mutation and not a group as such? If you search C72T! in the tree it appears in two places, under V18 and HV0f if I'm interpreting the tree correctly.

                        http://www.phylotree.org/tree/subtree_R0.htm

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jtoml3 View Post
                          The most I can find is some info on the PhyloTree, which states " Mutations that are reversions to an ancestral state (back mutations) are indicated with an exclamation mark (!)". So is C72T! a mutation and not a group as such? If you search C72T! in the tree it appears in two places, under V18 and HV0f if I'm interpreting the tree correctly.

                          http://www.phylotree.org/tree/subtree_R0.htm
                          Mutations are real life events.

                          Groups are man made objects (concepts ) that greatly simplify talking about populations sharing the same mutations set, as each group members are genetically close to each other.

                          W. (Mr.)

                          P.S.
                          Mutations are independent one from another. Looking a a single mutation one cannot see which branch of the phylogenetic tree of human mitochondrial DNA the mutation belongs to.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            C72T

                            I have that C72T mutation also. I am in the V19 subgroup. I also have two heteroplasmies, which is the difference I have with my two closest matches, who match me perfectly except for the two heteroplasmies that I have.

                            Best regards, Doug

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Correction

                              Originally posted by DWFlineage View Post
                              I have that C72T mutation also. I am in the V19 subgroup. I also have two heteroplasmies, which is the difference I have with my two closest matches, who match me perfectly except for the two heteroplasmies that I have.

                              Best regards, Doug
                              Actually I have the C72C not C72T mutation I think? I have a few other things going on, so I missed the distinction, but I am designated as V19 subgroup.

                              Best regards, Doug

                              Comment

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