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Subclade and GD - advice welcome!

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  • Subclade and GD - advice welcome!


    I did an Mtdna and FF. I tried to do as much reading about these topics as I could, but I am still a little confused. I got my Mtdna results in and I have about 20 matches. 3 are a GD of 1, with 5 with GD 2, and the rest are GD 3. All of these matches are in my HG subclade- H1ag. My question is this: Within a subclade, how close could these relations be? If I am understanding correctly subclades are bucketed based on the mutations, and matching these mutations with others. Does GD then account for mutations as well? If I could get a better understanding of my full sequence matches ( the 20 I mentioned above) in regards to genetic relations , it would really help! Thanks so much in advance !

  • #2
    Try this article by Roberta Estes, "Concepts – Genetic Distance." It discusses genetic distance for both Y-DNA and mtDNA, so scroll down to the "Mitochondrial DNA" section. She gives an example, using her own results to illustrate.


    • #3
      Thank you for this link. It was really helpful to put some of this in perspective. I noticed I don't have any FMS matches with a GD of zero. Does this mean I have mutations or a mutation off from my subclade? Also, does the branch that created my subclade equal a single maternal ancestor who had the most recent mutation that created the subclade? I apologize if I am going off topic, just trying to understand better.


      • #4
        I try to refer to articles or blog posts, because I'm not that knowledgeable about many genetic genealogy topics. Either that, or my memory is not so great! So, since Roberta Estes seems to have an article about almost any DNA topic (and if she doesn't, it's probably coming soon enough), I will direct you to another of hers and see if that helps you: "Mitochondrial DNA: Part 2 – What Do Those Numbers Mean?" It's one part of a 5-part series on mtDNA that she wrote last year. In the lower part of the latter post, she discusses
        • Transitions, Transversions and Reversions
        • Insertions
        • Deletions
        • Extra and Missing Mutations
        • Heteroplasmies
        Some of those topics may help explain differences with your matches. I don't think it's unusual not to have any matches at a GD of zero. They may eventually turn up, as DNA testing is a waiting game as far as matches go. I have two matches at GD 1, and no GD 0 matches. The rest of my 28 FMS matches are nine at GD 2, and fourteen at GD 3. I got my second GD 1 match last October, and the other GD 1 match was from six years before that. Out of my total 28 matches, nine appeared within the last year to fifteen months. Perhaps more people are testing mtDNA now.

        Also, FTDNA seems to have reorganized the pages for mtDNA in the FTDNA Learning Center. They now have two pages of links for mtDNA topics:
        "mtDNA Pages," which is under the "FTDNA User Guide" heading. The links there explain the pages for mtDNA in your account.
        "mtDNA Testing," which is under the "Expert's Handbook" heading. Those links cover a lot of other mtDNA topics.

        There are probably others who know a lot more about mtDNA than I do, so I hope they may jump in if they have anything to contribute.


        • #5
          Melissa122, my numbers are:

          0 - 31
          1 - 25
          2 - 15
          3 - 04

          In January 2019, Loobster reported 1306 total and 376 at GD - 0 for one of his kits. We gave him "bragging rights."
          Last edited by Biblioteque; 19th May 2020, 05:16 AM.


          • #6
            KATM - Thank you. Her articles are really helpful and written in an easily understood way. I will be using her articles more often now that I know about them!

            Biblioteque - Thanks for your numbers. It helps to give me perspective as far as what is normal to see for matches. Except for the person you mentioned of course lol! I would be curious to see their HG as that is really a lot of matches!

            Thanks Guys !


            • #7

              K1a1b1a is Loobster's largest kit with 1306 total.

              Loobster manages several kits. The kit with the fewest is 17 total and that Haplogroup is H1bw.


              • #8
                Melissa122, I have 0 matches at all distances for all levels of mtDNA. My haplogroup is a sub-branch that as of yet has not been defined.


                • #9

                  That is really interesting. Does that mean your subclade has not been defined as of yet ? May I ask what your main haplotype is? ( genuinely curious as I learn more )


                  • #10
                    The main haplogroup family is I. The lowest identified branch is estimated to have come into existence sometime between the building of the Egyptian Pyramids and the time of Charlemagne. I have seen a narrower date range of that branch coming into existence at some point during the era of Ancient Rome. I have multiple mutations that don't match anyone else in that nearest branch and am missing a couple of mutations that several but not all in that branch have. That branch is spread wide across Europe (15 people 11 countries from one end of the continent to the other), which kind of does indicate that it is not a very recent subclade. So until other people who are more distantly related than what can be documented or enough people test to clear up the order of some of the mutations becoming stable, the subclade that I belong to will be this older one. Eventually there will be enough testing done for the scientists to identify the order of the mutations, it is just a waiting game for that time to come.


                    • #11
                      bhemph . This is all very interesting and helpful. I have hard time finding out more about my branch H1ag. However, there is a small project on FT for H1ag . I would like to find the age of my branch and other info, and I started reading the seven daughters of eve, but i think it just covers the main info about H in general vs details on my branch.
                      Hopefully as more people test and databases grow, more streamlined info will be available to you and all of us !