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One T1 lineage: only Russians

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  • F.E.C.
    replied
    Originally posted by vraatyah
    Francesco, it confuses me that I cannot find any close match for you in my database. Such rarities as you have do exist really, a certain percentage of HVSes in every large sample is unique. However, I've got into the way of finding almost everything in my 70-K collection
    Yes, I don't have any exact match on any database because of some weird mutations. The closest match I could find is an Australian, on the SMGF database. We share all the HVR1 mutations, except for the last: 16527T.
    I guess these are the sort of problems that you "stumble into" when only few people from your same geographical area get dna testing.
    Thank you very much for your help Valery

    Leave a comment:


  • vraatyah
    replied
    Francesco, it confuses me that I cannot find any close match for you in my database. Such rarities as you have do exist really, a certain percentage of HVSes in every large sample is unique. However, I've got into the way of finding almost everything in my 70-K collection

    Leave a comment:


  • F.E.C.
    replied
    Thank you for the interesting informations; I didn't know that. However, yes, FTDNA only reports T2.

    Leave a comment:


  • vraatyah
    replied
    Originally posted by F.E.C.
    Sorry vraatyah, I only know that I'm T2. How can I know wether I'm T2a,b or c? My mitosearch id is QAC5Q. Any help would be very appreciated

    the most amusing thing is that labs usually assign a haplogroup, say Hg25a, after they proved that a sample

    1) falls into a high-level haplogroup (Hg25 in this case); usually they confirm this state by RFLPs;

    2) is similar to one of the low-level haplogroup examples intensively tested and used as reference (sometimes after complete sequencing). Say, the match is in Hg25a2.

    Then they say that a person falls into Hg25a, while the only reason for being in Hg25a (and not in Hg25b, for instance) is a similarity with a sample already proved to be in Hg25a2. So, if Hg25a2 is really monophyletic haplogroup and the similarity seems reliable (ie weighty, not a random match) they have proved a bit more - being in Hg25a2, not only in Hg25a.

    I doubt that they checked your sample for T2. On the other hand, all the T 296-304 samples tested with RFLPs fall into T2, and those completely sequenced appear to be in T2b, and few ones especially checked for T2b as well. However, only T2 is reported by FT, isn't it?

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  • F.E.C.
    replied
    Sorry vraatyah, I only know that I'm T2. How can I know wether I'm T2a,b or c? My mitosearch id is QAC5Q. Any help would be very appreciated

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  • vraatyah
    replied
    the same diagram as posted a few months ago, a bit updated. Now I do not use Fluxus at all.

    Last edited by vraatyah; 21 February 2007, 09:30 AM.

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  • penguin
    replied
    and also here's the T2 sequence I mentioned with 221T:

    126C, 221T, 294T, 296T, 304C, 519C / 73g, 195c, 263g, 309.1c, 315.1c

    There's apparently 2 people with this control region 1, the 2nd person has a different control region 2 than above which i'm not yet sure what it is.

    and to put my cluster on the same page again:

    control region 1xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxcontrol region2
    114 126 153 192 221 294 519xxxx73 150 263 309.1C 315.1C Spain/Sephardim
    114 126 153 192 294xxxxxxxxxxxx73 150 263 309.1C 315.1C Central Portugal
    114 126 153 192 294 519xxxxxxxx73 150 263 309.1C 309.2C 315.1C Hispanic
    067 114 126 153 192 294xxxxxxxxnot tested Brazil
    114 126 153 192 294 519xxxxxxxxnot tested surname"Gonazles", near Mexico

    comments on time lines and/or comments on any more matches?

    (and valery, I PMed you)
    Last edited by penguin; 9 January 2007, 08:19 AM. Reason: typo

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  • vraatyah
    replied
    Originally posted by penguin
    there's one other thing I wanted to discuss with you, but I can't do it over a public forum. (it's not that interesting and you many not really know, so don't get your hopes up...)If you clear space on your private account or email privately (I think you have my email address), when you have some free time i can run it by you.

    I'm intrigued there is enough room in PM box.

    Valery

    Leave a comment:


  • T E Peterman
    replied
    Neolithic means "New Stone Age", as opposed to Mesolithic "Middle Stone Age", and Paleolithic "Old Stone Age".

    Bryan Sykes & others speak of Neolithic farmers from the Near East. This was a technology that originated there & spread elsewhere.

    Timothy Peterman

    Leave a comment:


  • penguin
    replied
    [/QUOTE]=vraatyah I wonder if that means 221T could have occured early, before T5 and T2 took different paths.

    It could not.

    if you order the full sequence from the same company, there is a chance that the error comes again. They are more likely to use the same primers and similar pcr conditions for HVS regions (although the staff will change). I think, it would be more beneficial to sequence both molecules - yours and that of your closest match.
    Valery[/QUOTE]

    Thanks much Valery-
    before I forget, here are me and my closest matches in case anything wasn't clear from all our past messges: (ignore the x's- they are just to keep columns seperated)

    114 126 153 192 221 294 519xxxx73 150 263 309.1C 315.1C Spain/Sephardim
    114 126 153 192 294xxxxxxxxxxxx73 150 263 309.1C 315.1C Central Portugal
    114 126 153 192 294 519xxxxxxxx73 150 263 309.1C 309.2C 315.1C Hispanic
    067 114 126 153 192 294xxxxxxxxnot tested Brazil
    114 126 153 192 294 519xxxxxxxxnot tested surname"Gonazles", near Mexico

    I'm the first one, the second and fourth one you found in research papers, the third one you found in FBI database, and the fifth one is on the mitosearch database. (the ones without 519 were not tested up to that range). If you have any other comments based on this little "cluster" please let me know. and of course if you turn up any matches, please let me know.

    the phantom issue remains an intersting one. I know some labs are likely to produce phantoms repeatedly at specific locations, but i have no reason to beleive ftdna does at 221, at least my surveying mitosearch database, although i did it quickly. The person with T2 was surprised by her 221T as well, then tested her daughter, who also showed the 221 mutation. If I did get the full sequence, I would submit a brand new sample, but still I get your point. I can't compare my full sequnece to anyone else- none of those above have gotten full sequence (or will from what I can tell).

    i knnow your'e eager to get back to investigating your own interesting roots...



    there's one other thing I wanted to discuss with you, but I can't do it over a public forum. (it's not that interesting and you many not really know, so don't get your hopes up...)If you clear space on your private account or email privately (I think you have my email address), when you have some free time i can run it by you.
    Last edited by penguin; 7 January 2007, 02:20 PM. Reason: formatting problem

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  • vraatyah
    replied
    Originally posted by Grigoriev
    But may be your provider's data center have bad connect with mine?

    There is no problem when I connect from mum's machine - she lives with Windows very well. Neither do I. My institution accepts only RISC/*nix so I have to use a compatible machine at home.
    Last edited by vraatyah; 7 January 2007, 06:14 AM.

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  • vraatyah
    replied
    >My match wasn't exactly perfect: it's still missing that 221T.

    Hmmm.. I confused the mutations you listed in the first post with your match' ones. Not bad, nevertheless. If 221T is a real extra mutation, not a phantom, that new sequence is not a match in "genealogical" sense because your ancestor could get 221T many years ago, say 500. There is a near zero chance for a lineage with several distinct variants to have been developed in the last 200-300 years (which is the limit for female genealogy). On the other hand, the presence of 2-3 close matches only does not allow to calculate the age of lineage with good accuracy.

    >Incidentally, there is apparently a T2 haplogroup person that also has the 221T mutation. I wonder if that means 221T could have occured early, before T5 and T2 took different paths.

    It could not.


    >When i get full sequenced, i can make sure my 221T mutation replicates and isn't an artifact after all.

    Penguin, if you order the full sequence from the same company, there is a chance that the error comes again. They are more likely to use the same primers and similar pcr conditions for HVS regions (although the staff will change). I think, it would be more beneficial to sequence both molecules - yours and that of your closest match.


    >incidentally, do you have any more matches for me?


    I'll check


    Valery

    Leave a comment:


  • Grigoriev
    replied
    Originally posted by vraatyah
    Denis, I just tried to walk through your new forums (both are very interesting for me) and found that my Epiphany/Mozilla suspends on every page for several minutes. Is it a regular problem for your linux users, or I am the first who complains?

    Valery
    There is no problem with IE or Opera. I don't use Epiphany/Mozilla.. So, I didn't know about this feature... May be some time later I'll fix the problem.. But may be your provider's data center have bad connect with mine?

    Leave a comment:


  • penguin
    replied
    Originally posted by vraatyah
    Hi Penguin!

    my congratulations What a perfect match!

    My results are very similar when it comes to geography, with one exception: you found a match outside your group though with Iberian roots too. So either your lineage is not Jewish or the contrary that person has Jewish roots.


    Valery
    My match wasn't exactly perfect: it's still missing that 221T. Incidentally, there is apparently a T2 haplogroup person that also has the 221T mutation.
    I wonder if that means 221T could have occured early, before T5 and T2 took different paths. When i get full sequenced, i can make sure my 221T mutation replicates and isn't an artifact after all.

    I guess for all 4 of my near matches (all but 221T, plus the brazilian match has an extra mutation), not just the latest match, I don't know their religious/ethnic history. Even if i were able to talk to my matches and get their histories, there were so many conversos (those that converted from jewish to catholocism to avoid execution or deportment from Spain) that they themselves may not know about any jewish ancestry. Certainly many who immigrated to mexico fall into that category- the percent is fairly high, but I forget now what it is. So the person that matched me on the border town with mexico could fall into that category. gonzales is a name that some say could be converso.

    But more importantly, it may not be possible to ever tell more about the origions of my mutations. Still, i consider my quest a success story: to match long oral history to actual genes from iberian pennusila is pretty good.

    incidentally, do you have any more matches for me? Sorry to be a pest; it's probably a pain to look it up. It's just so rewarding to get new matches! Each hold the promise of a new piece of the puzzle.

    Happy new year.

    Leave a comment:


  • vraatyah
    replied
    Denis, I just tried to walk through your new forums (both are very interesting for me) and found that my Epiphany/Mozilla suspends on every page for several minutes. Is it a regular problem for your linux users, or I am the first who complains?

    Valery

    Leave a comment:

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