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mtDNA I1a1a ... when did 309.1C and 309.2C occur?

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  • mtDNA I1a1a ... when did 309.1C and 309.2C occur?

    Hi.

    I'm mtDNA I1a1a, and according to ftDNA the closest match is:
    HVR1 = 0
    HVR2 = 0
    FMS = 2

    (I've also got some FMS-matches = 3)

    In the "MtDNA Haplogroup I Project - mtDNA Test Results for Members"
    HVR1 Mutations ... 100% the same
    HVR2 Mutations ... She's got 309.1C and 309.2C and I don't.


    QUESTION(s)

    What does it mean that she's got 309.1C and 309.2C ... and when did the mutations occur? (500 ybp?, 5000 ybp? )

    What normally activates this kind of mutation ... illness, water supply, starvation etc.?

    Did her line "branch off" my line since she got the mutations, or is this even possible to decide?
    (Did her family-line move or mine?)

    We both got paper trails (church records) leading back to the middle / late 1700s in separate countries (on the same continent),
    so it should have happen before that time.

    If this is not the correct path to find our common ancestor (if any exist the last 5-600 years) ... what is?

  • #2
    Originally posted by GG99 View Post
    Hi.
    What does it mean that she's got 309.1C and 309.2C ... and when did the mutations occur? (500 ybp?, 5000 ybp? )
    If we look around this position 309 http://www.phylotree.org/resources/RSRS_annotated.htm

    304 C Control_region HVS-II
    305 C Control_region HVS-II
    306 C Control_region HVS-II
    307 C Control_region HVS-II
    308 C Control_region HVS-II
    309 C Control_region HVS-II
    310 T Control_region HVS-II
    311 C Control_region HVS-II
    312 C Control_region HVS-II
    313 C Control_region HVS-II
    314 C Control_region HVS-II
    315 C Control_region HVS-II
    316 G Control_region HVS-II

    That is how the scientist has defined how the "original" mtDNA looked like (position 304-316). Then whenever anyone refer to a mutation, it's simply a *difference* compared with the reference.

    309.1C then means that after 309 it was expected a T (look at position 310), however your match has a C there (written 309.1C). Then after the "extra" C, your match will be on sync again (with a T)

    However that specific "insertion" 309.1C seems to happen now and then. So a difference on that mutation shall not in general even be consider

    If we look at FTDNA project for I https://www.familytreedna.com/public...tion=mtresults

    356 people has it, and 489 don't.

    What normally activates this kind of mutation ... illness, water supply, starvation etc.?
    I would think it's Ms.Stochastic

    FMS = 2
    Do I understand you correctly, the person you trying to find a common ancestor with has a GD2 (genetic distance). If so I doubt you will be able to find your common ancestor.
    Last edited by JMAisHere; 10th November 2017, 04:24 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by JMAisHere View Post

      However that specific "insertion" 309.1C seems to happen now and then. So a difference on that mutation shall not in general even be consider
      Thank you for your reply.

      Does this mean that a mother might have 309.1C and her daughter not ... and then the granddaughter got it again?
      Should I get my mothers sister to test her DNA to check if she's got something I dont't?


      Do I understand you correctly, the person you trying to find a common ancestor with has a GD2 (genetic distance). If so I doubt you will be able to find your common ancestor.

      My GD=2 match got a paper trail back to 1775, and I’ve got a paper trail back to 1725.

      I'm trying to figure out if her mtDNA line moved to another part of Europe or mine, and to do that I (belive I) need to figure out what mutation occur and when / where.

      IF I figure that out, I've got 2 "neutral" paper trails from the 1650's and back to the 1200's I could try to follow to the 1900's depending on who moved where.


      I've also got another 6-7 GD=3 matches in a third country I “don’t care” about.

      Comment


      • #4
        Not fully understanding your post
        Does this match match you on Your HVR1 and HVR2 matchlist?
        You mention
        "I'm mtDNA I1a1a, and according to ftDNA the closest match is:
        HVR1 = 0
        HVR2 = 0
        FMS = 2"

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by prairielad View Post
          Not fully understanding your post
          Does this match match you on Your HVR1 and HVR2 matchlist?
          You mention
          "I'm mtDNA I1a1a, and according to ftDNA the closest match is:
          HVR1 = 0
          HVR2 = 0
          FMS = 2"
          Correct ... 100% match at HVR1 and HVR2 (zero differences) ... according to ftDNA

          Comment


          • #6
            Then these differences have no bearing on matching, If they did match would not show on your HVR2 matchlist
            your 2 differences will be in the coding region level.

            One can not see which markers in coding region are different. You would have to contact match and compare to see which are different. Coding region markers are not displayed in projects, and even admins can not see them to compare without kit holder specifically setting their privacy setting to allow admins access to see coding region markers

            If both you and match have enabled admins to see coding region, you can ask them to confirm differences are in the coding region. They can not tell you matches (not supposed to) coding region values, but can confirm whether or not differences are in coding region. Only if you or match share your coding region values with each other can you compare them.
            Last edited by prairielad; 19th November 2017, 01:39 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by prairielad View Post
              Then these differences have no bearing on matching, If they did match would not show on your HVR2 matchlist
              your 2 differences will be in the coding region level.

              One can not see which markers in coding region are different. You would have to contact match and compare to see which are different. Coding region markers are not displayed in projects, and even admins can not see them to compare without kit holder specifically setting their privacy setting to allow admins access to see coding region markers

              If both you and match have enabled admins to see coding region, you can ask them to confirm differences are in the coding region. They can not tell you matches (not supposed to) coding region values, but can confirm whether or not differences are in coding region. Only if you or match share your coding region values with each other can you compare them.

              Thank you for your reply and insight.

              I will contact my match and admins for further ''investigations''

              Comment

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