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Origin of Haplogroup H

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  • Origin of Haplogroup H

    In his book "The Seven Daughters of Eve", geneticist Brian Sykes
    places the birth of one of those daughters, Helena, in south-central France. However, I have read research papers from other geneticists who place the origin of mtDNA Haplogroup H in the Middle East.

    Can anyone clarify this for me? Where is the origin of Haplogroup H?

  • #2
    I have noticed that as well. I got a map when I ordered the Genographic test. It shows a path, from "Eve" to H. H is definately not in France on the map. H appears to be in the vicinity of Romania, Moldova, and the Ukraine. Perhaps Poland, Slovakia, and a few others. I can't tell for certain. The Genographic map does not label countries.

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    • #3
      Origin of Haplogroup H

      I've seen the same Genographic Project map. It would have you believe that H originated in Poland and migrated toward the Black Sea.

      There's a lot about the Genographic Project that I don't understand. That map is just one.

      Comment


      • #4
        I am H via R (russia).

        H goes like this...and it is general as they spread in many different directions.
        L-3 to N (middle East) for me to R then on to H. That is how many H's went.

        H has gone many directions and is very common. Had the same problem.

        I did get a Refine test that FTNDA does and that help to refine things quite a bit.
        I ended up H13. Which I am finding out is quite uncommon.

        So I would recommend getting the MT refine test done.
        Last edited by Shari; 3 April 2006, 09:45 AM.

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        • #5
          Origin of Haplogroup H

          Shari,

          I am awaiting the results of my FTDNA mtDNA and I understand that because there are so many sub-clades this is going to take some time.

          So far, I know that I have three differences from CRS: 256T, 272G, 353G.
          Dr. Doron Behar told me that he has no record of these three markers but he does have a record of two, and those belong to Iranian Jews. He's not sure what my three markers say about my remote ancestors. My mother's family is Italian.


          Alan

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          • #6
            Haplo HV1

            I just had both HVR1 and HVR2 done and they both came back weeks early. Interesting reading here about H haplo because it's not too common and difficult to find someone willing to share info. I had no idea of the significance of the location of specific mutations. I've asked here previously and was told that they had no significance at all. None of my HVR1 mutation number go us as high as Shari. Mine are 067T, 183C, 189C, 519C. Is there any special way to interperet that? I got my HVR2 refine test back shortly after and have found a handul of identical matches. But I was told by some here that in terms of mtDNA it's probably still 17 generations or more ago.

            Is that true?

            Can you suggest another site to make comparisons and learn more?

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            • #7
              Hello H's

              Glad to see something posted specifically on H. I too have asked and unfortunately, not a whole lot of replies.

              I just ordered the H refined test and will get my results around mid-May. I had my original test done with the Genographic Project and have mutations at 182c, 183c, 189c, 356c and 519c.

              Mito search shows 7 hits for me, 3 of which show German? I still havent figured this stuff out yet!

              If anyone does find out if the mutations lead to some additonal info on where...could you please post in this thread?

              Barb

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              • #8
                Alan,

                You will need to get a refined test done. It does make a big difference.

                DNA is interesting and may not been as you expected. For me,, once I got the refined test done...something happened. I am H13 with 14872,
                HR2 differences of 263G,3091C,351.1C, the later numbers weren't enough to pin point from where my family came from. With the H13 info... from the information I have found so far..comes from Italy.

                Now for me...the only Italian that could be, is from my Mother's father.
                Had this confirmed by another lab. Doesn't happen often....so figures it would happen to me.

                So it could be way back when...someone in your family line was from Iran. Is not impossible.

                Originally posted by HapJ1
                Shari,

                I am awaiting the results of my FTDNA mtDNA and I understand that because there are so many sub-clades this is going to take some time.

                So far, I know that I have three differences from CRS: 256T, 272G, 353G.
                Dr. Doron Behar told me that he has no record of these three markers but he does have a record of two, and those belong to Iranian Jews. He's not sure what my three markers say about my remote ancestors. My mother's family is Italian.


                Alan

                Comment


                • #9
                  Only sites I have been digging around in are the ones with H13 in it. But here they are.

                  http://www.ilbg18230.pwp.blueyonder....on/hap_H13.htm

                  http://www.ilbg18230.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/mtdna.htm

                  http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/article...i?artid=540273

                  http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:...&cd=4&ie=UTF-8

                  http://www.genome.org/cgi/content/full/15/1/19

                  Thing is...they are re making and re writing the information they have out there...as more people have their DNA done.

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                  • #10
                    Origin of Haplogroup H

                    Shari, I've gotten the results of my refined H test. I'm H7. Now, if I could only discover what that means.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by HapJ1
                      :Where is the origin of Haplogroup H?
                      Hi. Here is a study from 2005 that shows:

                      57.1 % of Haplogroup H in Central Turkey (Anatolia).

                      40.0 % of Haplogroup H in southern Turkey (Anatolia).

                      28.5 % of Haplogroup H in western Turkey (Anatolia).

                      17.6 % of Haplogroup H in Northern Turkey ( Anatolia ).

                      http://www.ias.ac.in/jgenet/Vol83No1/039.pdf

                      Other places where haplogroup H has a high prevalence is among the Basques. The Basque people have been isolated for long periods and the high frequency of haplogroup H among them can be explained as a founder effect. The high frequency of haplogroup H among the Turk people can for certain not be explained as a founder effect, due to the intermingling between people that always have been going on in those areas.

                      My belief is that haplogroup H is of Persian or Middle East origin, that it mainly was the haplogroup H people that migrated in all directions after the big agricultural revolution that started about 10.000 years ago. The agricultural revolution resulted in that the number of people over time exceeded the local recourses for food and land. This may also explain why haplogroup H is so widespread.

                      In some areas the huge immigration waves related to agriculture was late, as here in Norway where the climate is a challenge for farming. The freq of haplogroup H is high in the southern part of Norway (over 40%). Farming started here about 1500 years ago when certain tools came into use (the leaf knife, the scythe and the plough) (Source: Aschehoug & Gyldendals Norwegian Encyclopaedia, 1998). This history supports the theory that the farmers with a high frequency of haplogroup H migrated to the southern part of Scandinavia from east Eurasia year 0-500 and brought with them new technologies. This is supported by other findings that show that immigration came from the Black Sea area about year 110 when the Romans attacked the cultures there. Azov and the Black Sea are close to Turkey, Persia and the Middle East.

                      The hunter and gather populations in Scandinavia that immigrated here thousands of years earlier have a very low frequency of haplogroup H (less than 5 % in the present population).

                      In areas with warmer climates these immigrations happened much earlier.

                      ____________________

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                      • #12
                        Does anyone have an idea where H group with mutations 16311c:16519c may have come from? I am waiting for my h refindment to come back also in late May.
                        My adopted grandmother who was Irish always told me I was Finnish and tried to teach me the Saami ways the best she could, without my "parents " permission. Now I am really confussed. She also gave me the impression she knew my birth parents before they died, but never told me much that I can remember as to their names. Just that my parents were "different than most people", and had immigrated to Indiana in the late 1940s ,
                        I have no birth records, no adoption records... nothing . Only my own dna. and word of mouth from her.
                        mari

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by HapJ1
                          Shari, I've gotten the results of my refined H test. I'm H7. Now, if I could only discover what that means.
                          Here is a wee start.
                          http://www.ilbg18230.pwp.blueyonder....ion/hap_H7.htm

                          Would be nice if someone had one web site up with a "clear" form of information for the different H groups.
                          Reading through some of the web sites can make ones eyes cross.

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                          • #14
                            You might look here. There may be updated material around..I don't know how current this information is..

                            http://www.worldfamilies.net/mtDNA.htm

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                            • #15
                              Saami spooky

                              Impressive your old grandmother seem to know the Saami, usually people from US have no idea who they are, especially not at that time. I have read that many etnic Saami migrating to the US prefer to pretend to be Jewish to blend in with other people in their new country and to avoid harresment from earlier contrymen in their country of origin.

                              It is true they are different than most people, the Saami spooked the Norwegians, Swedes and the Finns for centuries about their suspected magic powers. Also the Irish/Scotts have tales about the "Finfolks" that may have come across the ocean from Norway with the Vikings, some have suspected these people to have been spooky Saami.

                              http://www.orkneyjar.com/folklore/se...ns/origin3.htm

                              Originally posted by mari
                              Does anyone have an idea where H group with mutations 16311c:16519c may have come from? I am waiting for my h refindment to come back also in late May.
                              My adopted grandmother who was Irish always told me I was Finnish and tried to teach me the Saami ways the best she could, without my "parents " permission. Now I am really confussed. She also gave me the impression she knew my birth parents before they died, but never told me much that I can remember as to their names. Just that my parents were "different than most people", and had immigrated to Indiana in the late 1940s ,
                              I have no birth records, no adoption records... nothing . Only my own dna. and word of mouth from her.
                              mari

                              Comment

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