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New FMS match (U5b2b2)

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  • #76
    I've seen enough now, of bits and pieces, to convince me that my U5b2b2 leads back to earliest Massachusetts. To put names to it: William Makepeace Sr. (1624-1681)and his U5b2b2 wife Ann Johnson (c.1640-1681). The problem is all the unknowns between Cynthia A. Lee (born c.1816) and Ann Johnson.
    Last edited by PDHOTLEN; 29 January 2016, 09:48 PM.

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    • #77
      Any female who matches my rare HVR1+HVR2 and stems from 1800s Indiana is probably related to my direct maternal line. But they were already mixed up by that time. For example, it seems to me that the Methodists in the Lee family were planted in a Methodist cemetery and accounted for. But I have a sneaking suspicion that a strategic male Lee converted to his probable wife's Presbyterian denomination. And he is not accounted for. Another tree with a match seems to go back to a Tucker surname. That family looks to be from two different lines going back to both Devon and Kent, England. If I'm connected, it probably came via New England. But both lines are apparently from that region, if New York is included. I only superficially looked at comments and trees from them at GeneForum. Maybe that designer of the famous Tucker Torpedo automobile is a distant cousin, ha ha.
      Last edited by PDHOTLEN; 20 March 2016, 04:21 AM.

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      • #78
        I have a new U5b2b2 match, by way of an autosomal Family Finder result, from Norway. FF gives her as 2nd to 4th cousin, but I'd guess it's really a bit further back. She is on my chromosome #18. Since U5b2b2 is rather rare, it is worth mentioning. However, she would not be on my maternal side (also U5b2b2), as that goes back to colonial times in the USA. This person has a Norway email. Her name bespeaks the coast/fjord country. My direct paternal line came from Sogne Fjord.

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        • #79
          I finally got a match that agrees with my (speculative) Lee line. This in New England back in the olden days. Most matches that show trees with Lee in them go back to Virginia. In any case, they seem to converge back in old England.

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          • #80
            an alternate Lee line possible

            Maybe there's a good reason why I have more Lee matches from Virginia than from New England. I focused on an alternative, if shaky, line coming out of Virginia and into Kentucky (when it was still part of Virginia). Since I became suspicious that my New England Lee line may not be valid, I came up with one based on names given downstream. If Edmund and Edward can be considered synonyms in a line or greater tree that has few of it/them, I ran across a Edmund/Edward Lee born in 1789 in what is now Nelson County (near Louisville). There is no visible record of his wife, who would have been my direct maternal ancestress. Talk about a brick wall! His daughter then would have been Cynthia Anna Lee, born in Indiana, according to downstream census info. There is no Edmund/Edward Lee in a list of Lee households in 1820 Indiana. So if he and his family were there, he must have died by that census, meaning he died by the age of 31. It's possible that the Lee household in Jennings County (closest to where Cynthia got married in Decatur County) is a son of Ed. But who knows how accurate this information all is? For the record, both the New England Lee line and the Virginia Lee clan (which includes Robert E. Lee) goes back to a common ancestor in England. But what I want to know is my direct maternal line.
            Last edited by PDHOTLEN; 13 January 2017, 11:11 PM.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
              Maybe there's a good reason why I have more Lee matches from Virginia than from New England. I focused on an alternative, if shaky, line coming out of Virginia and into Kentucky (when it was still part of Virginia). Since I became suspicious that my New England Lee line may not be valid, I came up with one based on names given downstream. If Edmund and Edward can be considered synonyms in a line or greater tree that has few of it/them, I ran across a Edmund/Edward Lee born in 1789 in what is now Nelson County (near Louisville). There is no visible record of his wife, who would have been my direct maternal ancestress. Talk about a brick wall! His daughter then would have been Cynthia Anna Lee, born in Indiana, according to downstream census info. There is no Edmund/Edward Lee in a list of Lee households in 1820 Indiana. So if he and his family were there, he must have died by that census, meaning he died by the age of 31. It's possible that the Lee household in Jennings County (closest to where Cynthia got married in Decatur County) is a son of Ed. But who knows how accurate this information all is? For the record, both the New England Lee line and the Virginia Lee clan (which includes Robert E. Lee) goes back to a common ancestor in England. But what I want to know is my direct maternal line.
              Well, looking closer, it doesn't look like a Jennings-Decatur County tie, given dates available. There still could have been a social network involved with the Lee family. But the Kentucky Lee source moved up to Putnam County area. Indianapolis was the new capital of the state. I imagine that people from all over Indiana visited there to see their new state capital. They may have brought their farm products to a farmers market. So young people met and some got married, ha ha. But I'd sure like to know what really happened back there and then. Cynthia and Cornelius got married in 1834.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
                Well, looking closer, it doesn't look like a Jennings-Decatur County tie, given dates available. There still could have been a social network involved with the Lee family. But the Kentucky Lee source moved up to Putnam County area. Indianapolis was the new capital of the state. I imagine that people from all over Indiana visited there to see their new state capital. They may have brought their farm products to a farmers market. So young people met and some got married, ha ha. But I'd sure like to know what really happened back there and then. Cynthia and Cornelius got married in 1834.
                I've been looking at another Lee branch originating in Virginia, but went up to PA and then what is now WV. But information for that branch is shaky or absent. However, the name Cynthia shows up.

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                • #83
                  I just noticed another HVR1 match for Switzerland (total now = 2). That is in the "Ancestral Origins" list, and not "My Origins". It seems a bit odd since most matches are from UK/IRE & Scandinavia, along with Germany, Poland, Hungary, etc. As my U5 HVR1 is uncommon, I'm wondering about the history of that clade.

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                  • #84
                    Looking at my companion tree at Ancestry (Ann Johnson research tree) that still seems to be somehow connected to my direct maternal line, there are mostly no last names given for "my" earliest known maternal ancestor. One name I latched onto I dropped since there is just no evidence supporting it (Denison). Whoever inserted that name (and copied by many) may have sought a high class affiliation. Another tree or two gives Dickey as the last name. This Margaret Dickey was from Liverpool, arriving at Boston in the 1600s. Most people with that last name have ancestors from Ulster, earlier coming from Scotland. The barons and earls kicked out lots of little people from Scotland back then. This Dickey from Liverpool probably belonged to that Dickey clan. The question is, am I descended from that line.
                    Last edited by PDHOTLEN; 7 February 2017, 07:17 PM.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
                      Looking at my companion tree at Ancestry (Ann Johnson research tree) that still seems to be somehow connected to my direct maternal line, there are mostly no last names given for "my" earliest known maternal ancestor. One name I latched onto I dropped since there is just no evidence supporting it (Denison). Whoever inserted that name (and copied by many) may have sought a high class affiliation. Another tree or two gives Dickey as the last name. This Margaret Dickey was from Liverpool, arriving at Boston in the 1600s. Most people with that last name have ancestors from Ulster, earlier coming from Scotland. The barons and earls kicked out lots of little people from Scotland back then. This Dickey from Liverpool probably belonged to that Dickey clan. The question is, am I descended from that line.
                      Well, I just don't know about that either. A common female ancestor may be back in the Lancashire area. But my new world gateway point could even be a Quaker in Pennsylvania. Hmm...

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                      • #86
                        I see that there is as new FMS U5b2b2b. Now there are three of us. But this new member matches the other one, and is one mutation off from me in HVR1. I don't know if hurricane Harvey prevented a more complete matching, but this new person does not (yet?) show up as any kind of match in my matches section.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
                          I see that there is as new FMS U5b2b2b. Now there are three of us. But this new member matches the other one, and is one mutation off from me in HVR1. I don't know if hurricane Harvey prevented a more complete matching, but this new person does not (yet?) show up as any kind of match in my matches section.
                          later: OK, I see the match in my FMS section. Obviously there would not be an HVR1 or HVR1+HVR2 match in this case. The earliest female birth place shown is Pulaski County, Kentucky. That points to an entrance route from Virginia. So there could be something to it. I wonder when that HVR1 mutation happened.
                          Last edited by PDHOTLEN; 30 August 2017, 12:16 AM.

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                          • #88
                            Matches to my U5b2b2/A228G just are not showing up. Recently I've stuck my neck out and extended my direct maternal line back into colonial times. But it is shaky with other trees giving other interpretations along the way. The route I currently settle on ends up as a toss up between a young Italian mother who must have died young (in New York back around 1669/70), or the second wife who arrived from Ireland as an Irish Quaker. Now my question is: is my U5b2b2/A228G also found in Italy. That girl (underage, it looks to me) supposedly came from Supino, Frosinone, Lazio, Italy, not far from Rome.

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
                              Matches to my U5b2b2/A228G just are not showing up. Recently I've stuck my neck out and extended my direct maternal line back into colonial times. But it is shaky with other trees giving other interpretations along the way. The route I currently settle on ends up as a toss up between a young Italian mother who must have died young (in New York back around 1669/70), or the second wife who arrived from Ireland as an Irish Quaker. Now my question is: is my U5b2b2/A228G also found in Italy. That girl (underage, it looks to me) supposedly came from Supino, Frosinone, Lazio, Italy, not far from Rome.
                              correction: it is U5b2b2/G228A. There is an entry from Italy (the only one, it looks like) for U5b2b* (I think it is), in the U5 Project that looks like it might be related. Is the U5 Project still active?

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                              • #90
                                Forget everything I just said. I took an apparent wrong fork in the road. Now I'm back with a female Pendleton, but this time connected ultimately with the Lancashire branch. So it looks again that my direct maternal line goes back to England. But it still may ultimately be of Norse origin, back in the mists of time.

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