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New FMS match (U5b2b2)

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  • #31
    I was just browsing around in some projects, and stumbled upon a perfect HVR1+HVR2 match to the new match mentioned earlier, in the German mtDNA Project. This one has not had a FMS test. But the this rare configuration of U5 HVR1+HVR2 mutations speaks for itself (including the 16192a transversion). There is only a last name given: Schneider. Kit #295250.

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    • #32
      My tree on both sides seems to be slowly dying out. Along my putative direct maternal line, about the time knights disappeared from my ancestry, the male of the pair came from a family with former knights and a baronage. It sounds impressive, but judging by the family shield motif (it looks like Ile-de-France), they were not part of the Norman inner circle. Such second class citizens did not often get the choice lands. In this case, it looks like the old baronage was in the region of the last primeval forests in north-central England. It also looks like they were happy to side with the Tudors (Henry VII) after/during the War of the Roses. That may explain the sudden appearance of a manor in Buckinghamshire. As an outsider, it would help if his wife was a daughter of the country; hence wife Elizabeth was the daughter of a nearby knight (although Plantagenet descent). Well, that's my latest in scenario building.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
        My tree on both sides seems to be slowly dying out. Along my putative direct maternal line, about the time knights disappeared from my ancestry, the male of the pair came from a family with former knights and a baronage. It sounds impressive, but judging by the family shield motif (it looks like Ile-de-France), they were not part of the Norman inner circle. Such second class citizens did not often get the choice lands. In this case, it looks like the old baronage was in the region of the last primeval forests in north-central England. It also looks like they were happy to side with the Tudors (Henry VII) after/during the War of the Roses. That may explain the sudden appearance of a manor in Buckinghamshire. As an outsider, it would help if his wife was a daughter of the country; hence wife Elizabeth was the daughter of a nearby knight (although Plantagenet descent). Well, that's my latest in scenario building.
        The surname connected to that fleur-de-lis motif (Ile-de-France) is "North". Sometimes I wonder if LTC. Oliver North is my very distant cousin, assuming (a shaky assumption) that my constructed direct maternal line is right.

        I noticed today that I have a couple of new matches (trees connected to mine) over at Ancestry that also connect to the Daniel Boone line. So I guess that line of mine (Linville) is valid.

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        • #34
          It's looking more like my direct U5b2b2 maternal line may not go back to King John, William-the-Conqueror and Charlemagne after all. That is still a valid line, but the problem may be that I don't connect to it. But I'll leave it in place as m mythology, heh heh. I think that girl back in North Carolina may have gotten herself pregnant when she was too young to marry. That may explain the name of her first child being that of her dad (William), and not of her lover's line. I'm getting this from my foggy crystal ball. My unstable computer connection to the internet prevents me from doing as much researching as I would like.

          My U5b2b2 still looks like it came over with the "Great Migration", but possibly one of those sail ships ended up in Virginia, instead of Massachusetts. Some of them moved to Maryland to avoid harassment by the Anglicans in Virginia (e.g. Preston family). But some may have remained. The draw was tobacco! Eventually various families moved down to North Carolina (Rockingham, Richmond County). And that's where my ancestress first appears on the scene. Her direct maternal line may go back to west England (Lancashire and etc.). That could end up being an ultimate Norse origin for this haplotype. Norwegians who were driven out of Dublin went over to Lancashire. Well, so much for speculating.
          Last edited by PDHOTLEN; 20 September 2014, 02:22 AM.

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          • #35
            I put together a highly speculative alternate tree that includes my ancestress (Charity) back there in North Carolina. But her direct maternal lines dead ends in Maryland. This has her mother being Rachel Bennett. That particular Bennett family moved down to Anson-Richmond County in NC in the 1700s. There is an old plantation house in Anson County that was used in the filming of "Color Purple" (see Wadesboro, NC). That house apparently belonged to James Bennett, who would've been the brother of Charity's mother. Her direct maternal line (U5b2b2) could possibly ultimately be French Huguenot. Anyway there seems to be a Huguenot connection back in Maryland. The name Wilde may have come from Ireland (with France before that?). Then there is the name Chears, being Chaires before that. I'm going by William Covington marrying Rachel Bennett. But I'm speculating. (Maybe I'm related to Oscar Wilde).
            Last edited by PDHOTLEN; 21 October 2014, 07:29 PM.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
              I put together a highly speculative alternate tree that includes my ancestress (Charity) back there in North Carolina. But her direct maternal lines dead ends in Maryland. This has her mother being Rachel Bennett. That particular Bennett family moved down to Anson-Richmond County in NC in the 1700s. There is an old plantation house in Anson County that was used in the filming of "Color Purple" (see Wadesboro, NC). That house apparently belonged to James Bennett, who would've been the brother of Charity's mother. Her direct maternal line (U5b2b2) could possibly ultimately be French Huguenot. Anyway there seems to be a Huguenot connection back in Maryland. The name Wilde may have come from Ireland (with France before that?). Then there is the name Chears, being Chaires before that. I'm going by William Covington marrying Rachel Bennett. But I'm speculating. (Maybe I'm related to Oscar Wilde).
              Well, now I just don't know. Maybe I'm not directly connected to the Bennett family after all. The Rachel Bennett that I was trying to marry William Covington may not have happened. He was supposedly born about 1720, while she was born about 1743. He robbed the cradle. Or not, as the case may be. I saw online that a William Covington married a Rachel Bennett; but no dates. There were lots of William Covingtons over the generations. They all (Covington, Preston, Newman, Moore, Bennett, et al) probably knew each other back there in Virginia > MD > NC. Hmm...
              Last edited by PDHOTLEN; 26 October 2014, 01:13 PM.

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              • #37
                I don't know. A while back I deleted a whole line that branched off my maternal branch back there in North Carolina. One reason is that the claim to her connection on another tree showed no proof. Another was that I didn't have any surnames that matched me here at FTDNA. Now I see a few of those surnames (sparsely) popping up at long last (Giles, Hyde, Alley). Hmm...

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                • #38
                  An alternative hypothesis to descending from King John's mistress is the following. An unknown and unknowable bond servant (Irish?) went to Virginia in the 1600s. One daughter (my line) went to the eastern shore of Maryland, where her maternal line eventually marrried into landed planter society. Another daughter/daughter's line of the original female immigrant Melungeonized > Cherokeeized, and ended up in Oklahoma.
                  Last edited by PDHOTLEN; 1 December 2014, 01:02 AM.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
                    An alternative hypothesis to descending from King John's mistress is the following. An unknown and unknowable bond servant (Irish?) went to Virginia in the 1600s. One daughter (my line) went to the eastern shore of Maryland, where her maternal line eventually marrried into landed planter society. Another daughter/daughter's line of the original female immigrant Melungeonized > Cherokeeized, and ended up in Oklahoma.
                    If per chance Covington is not my direct maternal line (eastern shore MD), a French Huguenot origin seems within the realm of possibility. I have FF matches with persons who include French or modified French names in their surname lists.

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                    • #40
                      I noticed today in my mtDNA section that there is a new addition in the chart of HVR1 matches. These are from a worldwide database, and not from FTDNA. At least that's the way I understand it. So rather than a new addition to Scotch or English or Irish, they inserted Bahrain with one match. What does that show?, U5 LGM refugium around the Persian Gulf?, white slavery?, or just modern mixing?

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
                        I noticed today in my mtDNA section that there is a new addition in the chart of HVR1 matches. These are from a worldwide database, and not from FTDNA. At least that's the way I understand it. So rather than a new addition to Scotch or English or Irish, they inserted Bahrain with one match. What does that show?, U5 LGM refugium around the Persian Gulf?, white slavery?, or just modern mixing?
                        Why do you think they are not from FTDNA?

                        W.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by dna View Post
                          Why do you think they are not from FTDNA?

                          W.
                          That's just a conclusion I reached years ago; I forget why. Except that that chart of HVR1 matches, for example, does not match my FTDNA HVR1 matches elsewhere. I mean, you have your FTDNA matches results, and then you have this separate page ("Ancestral Origins") with different results (numbers don't match). With HVR1 + HVR2, I have 5 matches at FTDNA, but only 2 at Ancestral Origins, and they both are from England. Only one of my five FTDNA matches give an origin in England. The rest are blank or from USA.
                          Last edited by PDHOTLEN; 10 December 2014, 06:28 AM.

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                          • #43
                            I was thinking that the map includes those who marked that they do not want to receive e-mails/see HVR1 matches.

                            And I never paid attention to the pins in North America, Australia or Yemen

                            W.

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                            • #44
                              I'm now using HVR2 mutation 228A (both rCRS & RCRS) as my earliest direct maternal surname in the U5 & U5 (FMS) projects. That takes my direct maternal line back to a generic England. So far, I have not seen any with that mutation from Ireland or Scotland. Even if there are persons with that mutation (U5b) in Ireland, that would likely be Anglo-Irish. Hey, I'd be glad to be proven wrong. Anything is progress at this point. Ultimately, U5b2b2 with 228A could end up coming from France with Huguenots &/or Gypsies. Or it could have come from Scandinavians (Norse & Swedes). And so it goes...

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                              • #45
                                It might be possible that my rather rare HVR1+HVR2 haplotype (assume U5b2b2) were low class indentured servants from west England. One founding female started a clade in Massachussetts in the early-to-mid 1600s. She seems to have come from the Somerset/Bristol region of England. My own direct female line may have gone to Virginia, with daughters (1) Melungeonizing and (2) marrying with Gypsy descendants somehow. Number 1 eventually ending up in Oklahoma, while mine went via NC > KY > IN. Even if with Covington of eastern shore Maryland (from VA), that lineage has 2 or 3 Gypsy-related names in their tree. Another Gypsy-related surname that I see now and then as connected to FF matches is Hawkins. Maybe the renowned maker of the Hawkin's rifle descended from tinkers (metal workers) back in England?

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