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New FMS match (U5b2b2)

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  • #16
    I must be lucky...

    I have 18 exact matches on my FMS. I am H1c. The problem is, my exact matches are localized primarily in Russia and Poland, Hungary, and Germany. I have zero idea about my maternal lineage beyond 1858 as the trail stops coooold.

    With exact matches located primarily in Eastern Europe/Asia (Russia-depending on where in Russia), I am not placing a lot of hope into these exact matches- unless there might be something that I am missing (which I am certain that I am).

    Having two adopted parents is very challenging and can be prohibitive as well...

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    • #17
      I don't particularly go along with the (my own) FTDNA "My Origins" results, especially after getting my Ancestry results back. Going more by my Ancestry results, something is just not quite right. It's really hard to shoehorn those aDNA results into my tree structure. Generally speaking, people don't like the idea of NPEs. But they are probably more prevalent than people want to admit. In the case of my direct maternal line (U5b2b2), it survives nicely, at least back into colonial times where records are few and far between. The question really is, who were the males involved along the way.
      Last edited by PDHOTLEN; 21 June 2014, 10:08 PM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
        I don't particularly go along with the (my own) FTDNA "My Origins" results, especially after getting my Ancestry results back. Going more by my Ancestry results, something is just not quite right. It's really hard to shoehorn those aDNA results into my tree structure. Generally speaking, people don't like the idea of NPEs. But they are probably more prevalent than people want to admit. In the case of my direct maternal line (U5b2b2), it survives nicely, at least back into colonial times where records are few and far between. The question really is, who were the males involved along the way.
        I think that the presence of unaccounted NPEs are what is skewing the conception of the data for many of us.

        Like mutations, NPEs can occur at anytime along the lines. In my paternal line, I have solid documentation, but the DNA tells a vastly different story. So finding a match is the only way for me to find the proper paternal lineage.

        With the maternal side bearing such slow mutation rates, it is quite difficult to pinpoint a direct maternal lineage from a genetic standpoint. Imagine having 18 exact matches at 111 markers and on the Big Y??

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        • #19
          I was just repairing a damaged old maternal tree at Ancestry. Somehow an almost fatal deletion that wasn't my fault, as far as I can tell. Anyway, this older tree had my direct maternal line going back on a different line than I later adopted. And looking closely, this older line may be more correct. This line has my direct maternal line going back to the Carolingian Franks, and not Scandinavians. At this point it goes back to the wife of Charles "The Bald", Holy Roman Emperor. Hmm...

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          • #20
            Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
            I just received my fourth FMS match (U5b2b2). Unfortunately, it is a genetic distance of 2. That would seem to be a long way back to a common ancestor; maybe centuries back.
            None of you close matches are in the U5 project. If they would all join the project, or if they submit their results anaonymously to GenBank, I can analyze the diversity in this groups and try to estimate its age and geographic origin.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by GST View Post
              None of you close matches are in the U5 project. If they would all join the project, or if they submit their results anaonymously to GenBank, I can analyze the diversity in this groups and try to estimate its age and geographic origin.
              I just rejoined the U5 and U5b projects, although I don't see my results in there yet.

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              • #22
                Speaking of NPEs (earlier), the most famous NPE along my direct maternal line (according to my latest configuration) was William-the-Conqueror! His youngest (it looks like she was the youngest) daughter Muriel had my U5b2b2. Of course I could be wrong (yet again).

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
                  Speaking of NPEs (earlier), the most famous NPE along my direct maternal line (according to my latest configuration) was William-the-Conqueror! His youngest (it looks like she was the youngest) daughter Muriel had my U5b2b2. Of course I could be wrong (yet again).
                  I knew it was too good to be true. Googling the Internet shows me that nobody seems to know who Muriel's mother really was. Hmm... There are a lot of erroneous trees at Ancestry regarding this person. I've been basing Joan (Lady of Wales) Plantagenet's mother as being Clemence de Fougeres, whose maternal g-grandmother looks to be this Muriel (who married well; She must have been of the proper noble class). I guess I'll have to cut off my maternal line with Joan. There are several candidates for her mother.
                  Last edited by PDHOTLEN; 26 June 2014, 05:41 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
                    I knew it was too good to be true. Googling the Internet shows me that nobody seems to know who Muriel's mother really was. Hmm... There are a lot of erroneous trees at Ancestry regarding this person. I've been basing Joan (Lady of Wales) Plantagenet's mother as being Clemence de Fougeres, whose maternal g-grandmother looks to be this Muriel (who married well; She must have been of the proper noble class). I guess I'll have to cut off my maternal line with Joan. There are several candidates for her mother.
                    Still and all, I keep thinking maybe my U5b2b2 haplotype came from Sweden via Queen Cyrid in the early 900s. She married Harald "Blue Tooth", and left her DNA in Normandy.

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                    • #25
                      I just noticed a rearrangement of my U5b2b2 results in the U5b project. A (rare) new person has been added, which put both of us in a new sub-category. I'm happy that there is finally some movement with the U5b2b2.

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                      • #26
                        I see that SMGF is back on line. I thought it was gone for good, what with the reorganization at Ancestry. I have slightly over 10 pages of HVR1 matches there. In my case, given the relative rarity, some of those matches are very intriguing. One match that caught my eye early on is from Belle Isle, Brittany (Morbihan). Rather than being from a poor Viking female who was dragged there by hairy smelly Vikings, it now seems plausible that the match arrived in Medieval times from within Normandy/Brittany. And this HVR1 may come from one of the daughters of King Harald "Bluetooth". I can't see exactly how many of his daughters existed in Normandy. The most famous was Gunnora, wife of Richard I "The Fearless", Duke of Normandy, who was born in 933. She was probably born around 940 or so. Gunnora probably had two(?) sisters in that region who married and had offspring. Maybe my direct maternal line comes from one of them. How's that for mythology!?
                        Last edited by PDHOTLEN; 1 July 2014, 07:14 AM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
                          I just received my fourth FMS match (U5b2b2). Unfortunately, it is a genetic distance of 2. That would seem to be a long way back to a common ancestor; maybe centuries back.
                          It looks like one of the GD = 2 is in my HVR1. And I was informed that I have a unique coding region mutation. Could those two mutations have happened since the year 1000 or so? What I'm getting at is, I would like to see an FMS test made on one or more direct maternal descendants of the wife of Richard I "The Fearless", Duke of Normandy. His wife was Gunnora, daughter of Harald "Bluetooth", King of Denmark. Then I could confirm or refute that branch on my tree.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
                            It looks like one of the GD = 2 is in my HVR1. And I was informed that I have a unique coding region mutation. Could those two mutations have happened since the year 1000 or so? What I'm getting at is, I would like to see an FMS test made on one or more direct maternal descendants of the wife of Richard I "The Fearless", Duke of Normandy. His wife was Gunnora, daughter of Harald "Bluetooth", King of Denmark. Then I could confirm or refute that branch on my tree.
                            I'm not trying to claim descent from Gunnora. But she had vague and rather mysterious sisters who lived in the Contentin area of Normandy. According to a Wiki writeup I saw, Richard "The Fearless" married Gunnora for diplomatic reasons; to bind two rival Viking clans together. One of those sisters apparently was not a biological daughter of Harald "Bluetooth". She was the daughter of the King immediately preceding Harald (Bjorn of Sweden). The only way I could be related to any of them (the way I currently see it), on my maternal side, is if Clemence de Fougeres was Joan's mother (Joan Fitzjohn, illegitimate daughter of King John).
                            Last edited by PDHOTLEN; 3 July 2014, 11:57 AM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
                              I just noticed a rearrangement of my U5b2b2 results in the U5b project. A (rare) new person has been added, which put both of us in a new sub-category. I'm happy that there is finally some movement with the U5b2b2.
                              The above rare new match has 16192a (HVR1). That looks like it would be a double back mutation on Phylotree.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
                                The above rare new match has 16192a (HVR1). That looks like it would be a double back mutation on Phylotree.
                                Looking again at this new match, that caused me to be put with her in a new subgroup, I see that the 16192a mutation is a transversion (not a transition). So in that case, it is not a double back mutation. Am I right? I'm hardly an expert.

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