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T2e1 in combination with 9181G

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  • T2e1 in combination with 9181G

    I've been confirmed as being part of the T2e1 haplogroup and one of my coding region differences stands out: 9181G.

    I have two identical matches at FTDNA; i.e. there are no differences in our mtDNA markers and we each match each other identically.We therefore assumed that we shared a common ancestor within the last 400 years and were trying to locate this individual.

    However, Professor Felice Bedford seems to think differntly. (She has carried out research into T2e amongst Sephardic Jewish populations, seems to be the expert on T2e.) She suggests that we differ from the ancestral T2e only through two mutations 41T and 9181G i.e. that we have a very ancient form of T2e1. In other words, while it is possible that we share a maternal ancestor within the last 400 years it is also possible that our common ancestress was 2000 years ago.

    Because there is a cluster of Sephardic Jews from Bulgaria who have the 9181G mutation together with some additional mutations she thinks ours is the base and that their mtDNA mutated away from ours many hundreds of years ago. She goes further, actually, and is proposing that our shared ancestress lived in the Middle East prior to the split between Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews.

    I've been trying to find other people with the T2e1 Haplogroup and the 9181 mutation,and so far it seems very rare. If you know someone that fits this profile or can help me with other information, please let me know.

  • #2
    For those interested

    http://www.esciencecentral.org/journ....php?aid=19900http://www.esciencecentral.org/journ....php?aid=19900

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    • #3
      Prof. Bedford is indeed the expert on T2e, especially among Sephardic Jews. I have been in touch with her, since I have had the full sequence done and am T2e, although not Sephardic in ancestry. My maternal line is from Basilicata in southern Italy, with no indication of any Jewish ancestry. She has noted in her studies that T2e is not common and is found at its highest levels in Egypt and Italy.

      I read the Discussion section of her study, which you linked to, and looked at the figures and tables she provided. Her explanation about your mtDNA results certainly sounds plausible. In general, the estimates given by FTDNA for "time to most recent common ancestor" (TMRCA) for mtDNA matches, even exact matches at the full sequence level, are regarded by many people as overly optimistic. Based on that alone, I would tend to believe Felice's TMRCA estimate over that of FTDNA.

      By the way, thanks for the link to her new study. I had read somewhere that she was publishing a new study on T2e and searched for it on Google Scholar, but nothing came up. I wouldn't have been able to find and read the study without the link you gave.
      Last edited by MMaddi; 19 November 2013, 11:03 AM.

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      • #4
        The new paper is called Clarifying mitochondrial dna subclades of t2e from mideast to mexico

        Its in issue 4 but is technically still in press so the weblink is not yet stable and the doi not yet activated

        Heres the current link. http://www.esciencecentral.org/journ...pen-access.php

        Theres also a copy on gary felix's website. Hes an administrator of the mexico project.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by penguin View Post
          The new paper is called Clarifying mitochondrial dna subclades of t2e from mideast to mexico

          Its in issue 4 but is technically still in press so the weblink is not yet stable and the doi not yet activated

          Heres the current link. http://www.esciencecentral.org/journ...pen-access.php

          Theres also a copy on gary felix's website. Hes an administrator of the mexico project.
          PDF document attached
          Attached Files

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          • #6
            This study is a very nice example of the detailed analysis that can be done by contacting FMS 1 to 3 step matches, inviting them to join the study, and then contacting their matches, until you have most or all of the available samples. The problem generally is that many people have tested the FMS but have not shared their results or explored the history of their specific subclade. Bedford et al. conclude with this recommendation:

            Perhaps study of phylogeny and population migration may be facilitated if every researcher were to seek out additional information through the adoption of a subclade.

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            • #7
              My father has T2e1b ( from 23andme). I 'll do full mtDNA soon.

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