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Stealing customers from FTDNA through deception

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  • Judy
    replied
    Originally posted by Victor
    Hi Judy,

    If you don't mind, I would appreciate if you could please let us know about your project member who tested with Genebase when he gets his FTDNA re-test results as to the allele differences from one lab to the other.

    In our E3b project we're interested in confirming the conversion values for a particular haplotype that also tested with Genebase. Thanks.

    Victor
    Victor, I got the 37 marker results back for the project member who had previously tested with GeneBase. FTDNA reported two of the markers differently.

    DYS #455: FTDNA = 11 and GeneBase = 10

    GATA H4: FTDNA = 9 and GeneBase = 10


    Hope this helps.
    Judy
    Last edited by Judy; 5 February 2007, 03:53 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Victor
    replied
    Originally posted by Judy
    I just saw this post on ISOGG:

    "Posted by: "International Society of Genetic Genealog" [email protected] isogg05
    Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:18 pm (PST)
    With much thanks and gratitude going to David Wilson and Terry Barton, ISOGG was able to open a line of communication to GeneBase via its parent company, GeneTrack. The company will be compiling a nomenclature comparison table to allow for comparisons to other companies."

    Judy
    Many thanks, Judy. I'll be monitoring ISOGG's posts.

    Victor

    Leave a comment:


  • Judy
    replied
    Originally posted by rbsvnski
    Thanks Judy, this is immensely helpful. But I can't help but wonder how many GeneBase results are/were uploaded to YSearch with incorrect (i.e. non-converted) values.

    Rob
    Right. I don't know what to do about that. I adjusted the marker values for the gentleman whose results I uploaded to Y-search, but I doubt anyone else did. On the positive side though, there don't seem to be many people on Y-search who tested with GeneBase.
    Judy

    Leave a comment:


  • Judy
    replied
    Originally posted by Victor
    Hi Judy,

    If you don't mind, I would appreciate if you could please let us know about your project member who tested with Genebase when he gets his FTDNA re-test results as to the allele differences from one lab to the other.

    In our E3b project we're interested in confirming the conversion values for a particular haplotype that also tested with Genebase. Thanks.

    Victor
    I just saw this post on ISOGG:

    "Posted by: "International Society of Genetic Genealog" [email protected] isogg05
    Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:18 pm (PST)
    With much thanks and gratitude going to David Wilson and Terry Barton, ISOGG was able to open a line of communication to GeneBase via its parent company, GeneTrack. The company will be compiling a nomenclature comparison table to allow for comparisons to other companies."

    Judy

    Leave a comment:


  • rbsvnski
    replied
    Originally posted by Judy
    ...he adds 1 to the GeneBase result for DYS 455, adds 1 to the Genebase result for 458 and subtracts 1 from the GeneBase result for GATA H4
    Judy
    Thanks Judy, this is immensely helpful. But I can't help but wonder how many GeneBase results are/were uploaded to YSearch with incorrect (i.e. non-converted) values.

    Rob

    Leave a comment:


  • Judy
    replied
    Originally posted by Victor
    Hi Judy,

    If you don't mind, I would appreciate if you could please let us know about your project member who tested with Genebase when he gets his FTDNA re-test results as to the allele differences from one lab to the other.

    In our E3b project we're interested in confirming the conversion values for a particular haplotype that also tested with Genebase. Thanks.

    Victor
    Sure Victor, I'll do that. In the meantime, I saw a post on ISOGG by Adrian Williams who says to convert GeneBase results to make them comparable with FTDNA results, he adds 1 to the GeneBase result for DYS 455, adds 1 to the Genebase result for 458 and subtracts 1 from the GeneBase result for GATA H4
    Judy

    Leave a comment:


  • Victor
    replied
    Originally posted by Judy
    Floyd, I compared the marker results from GeneBase with others from his (GeneBase predicted) haplogroup on Y-search, and there were some atypical markers. I am not confident they are correct, yet it is possible that he is a "rare bird." I contacted GeneBase and after some time I finally heard back from them. They said their test results cannot be compared to results from other companies. That made me suspect; the reputable testing companies have public data bases where customers can upload their data to compare with people who tested with other companies. In the last couple of days, I have seen posts from the International Society of Genetic Genealogists (ISOGG) that some administrators of large surname projects are finding that GeneBase test results on certain markers do not agree with results from other companies and GeneBase is not willing to publicize the conversions necessary to compare results with other companies. This is creating a problem for administrators with large groups who are trying to calculate modal values.

    The gentleman who I invited to join my project but tested with GeneBase by mistake is going to re-test with FTDNA because he wants to be able to join geographical and haplogroup projects at FTDNA. It will be interesting to see if the FTDNA results are different from the GeneBase results.
    Judy
    Hi Judy,

    If you don't mind, I would appreciate if you could please let us know about your project member who tested with Genebase when he gets his FTDNA re-test results as to the allele differences from one lab to the other.

    In our E3b project we're interested in confirming the conversion values for a particular haplotype that also tested with Genebase. Thanks.

    Victor

    Leave a comment:


  • Judy
    replied
    Originally posted by fmoakes
    Judy,
    I belive I recall discussion of problems with GeneBase data on the Rootsweb GENEALOGY-DNA-L Archives http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/GENEALOGY-DNA/
    I will try to find those posts. If successful, I'll pass the info on to this forum.
    Floyd Oakes
    Y-I1a
    mt-K1a
    Ysearch: NTX73
    Thanks Floyd. I vaguely remember seeing some discussion of GeneBase on rootsweb some time ago too.
    Judy

    Leave a comment:


  • fmoakes
    replied
    Originally posted by Judy
    Floyd, I compared the marker results from GeneBase with others from his (GeneBase predicted) haplogroup on Y-search, and there were some atypical markers. I am not confident they are correct, yet it is possible that he is a "rare bird." I contacted GeneBase and after some time I finally heard back from them. They said their test results cannot be compared to results from other companies. That made me suspect; the reputable testing companies have public data bases where customers can upload their data to compare with people who tested with other companies. In the last couple of days, I have seen posts from the International Society of Genetic Genealogists (ISOGG) that some administrators of large surname projects are finding that GeneBase test results on certain markers do not agree with results from other companies and GeneBase is not willing to publicize the conversions necessary to compare results with other companies. This is creating a problem for administrators with large groups who are trying to calculate modal values.

    The gentleman who I invited to join my project but tested with GeneBase by mistake is going to re-test with FTDNA because he wants to be able to join geographical and haplogroup projects at FTDNA. It will be interesting to see if the FTDNA results are different from the GeneBase results.
    Judy
    Judy,
    I belive I recall discussion of problems with GeneBase data on the Rootsweb GENEALOGY-DNA-L Archives http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/GENEALOGY-DNA/
    I will try to find those posts. If successful, I'll pass the info on to this forum.
    Floyd Oakes
    Y-I1a
    mt-K1a
    Ysearch: NTX73

    Leave a comment:


  • Judy
    replied
    Originally posted by efgen
    Judy,

    Considering that that issue was posted to the board with no indication that FTDNA has been notified by email, I wouldn't assume they have been. Since you are one of the people affected by this, my suggestion would be to send an email to FTDNA to ensure they are aware of the situation and let them know exactly what occured in your case. I don't know what kind of action they can take, but I'm sure they would at least like to know that they are losing business due to another company's deceptive practices.

    Elise
    Elise, I got a response from Leah Wark. FTDNA is aware of the situation and prefers customers handle it with GeneBase on their own. It would open a can of worms if FTDNA gets involved.
    Judy

    Leave a comment:


  • Judy
    replied
    Originally posted by fmoakes
    It will help some if they both upload to Ysearch.
    Floyd Oakes
    Y-I1a
    mt-K1a
    Ysearch:NTX73
    Floyd, I compared the marker results from GeneBase with others from his (GeneBase predicted) haplogroup on Y-search, and there were some atypical markers. I am not confident they are correct, yet it is possible that he is a "rare bird." I contacted GeneBase and after some time I finally heard back from them. They said their test results cannot be compared to results from other companies. That made me suspect; the reputable testing companies have public data bases where customers can upload their data to compare with people who tested with other companies. In the last couple of days, I have seen posts from the International Society of Genetic Genealogists (ISOGG) that some administrators of large surname projects are finding that GeneBase test results on certain markers do not agree with results from other companies and GeneBase is not willing to publicize the conversions necessary to compare results with other companies. This is creating a problem for administrators with large groups who are trying to calculate modal values.

    The gentleman who I invited to join my project but tested with GeneBase by mistake is going to re-test with FTDNA because he wants to be able to join geographical and haplogroup projects at FTDNA. It will be interesting to see if the FTDNA results are different from the GeneBase results.
    Judy
    Last edited by Judy; 9 December 2006, 12:14 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • paitenceofjob
    replied
    This morning I tried typing "FTDNA" in Yahoo's search engine and those two companies' sponsor links did not appear. They do still appear with their bold title of Family Tree DNA when you type "Family Tree DNA" or "familytreedna". It appears Relative Genetics's sponsor link has a suffix to allow them to see how successful this advertising scheme is: http://www.relativegenetics.com/rela...amily-tree-dna

    For people with a browser like mine, the blue box around the sponsor links is so pale as to almost blend in with the white surrounding area for the rest of the links. I can see where someone not familiar with the various genetic genealogy companies might easily be confused or deceived.

    Leave a comment:


  • Judy
    replied
    Originally posted by efgen
    Judy,

    Considering that that issue was posted to the board with no indication that FTDNA has been notified by email, I wouldn't assume they have been. Since you are one of the people affected by this, my suggestion would be to send an email to FTDNA to ensure they are aware of the situation and let them know exactly what occured in your case. I don't know what kind of action they can take, but I'm sure they would at least like to know that they are losing business due to another company's deceptive practices.

    Elise
    Good suggestion, Elise. I just e-mailed FTDNA about it.
    Judy

    Leave a comment:


  • rbsvnski
    replied
    Originally posted by Judy
    Someone I encouraged to get his DNA tested at FTDNA so he could compare his results with my husband's wound up testing with GeneBase but thought he was testing with FTDNA.
    Judy
    I had a similar experience. A suspected 4th cousin. I sent him an email with a link to FTDNA but he somehow ended up testing with genebase instead. I assumed all along it was his choice, but your post has me wondering.

    As a result we have problems with him joining my surname project, problems with comparing markers that first require conversion and problems because they don't test the same set of markers as FTNDA.

    His results are loaded into YSearch, but there are still issues. He purchased a 22 marker test from Genebase. Only 18 of these are tested in FTNDA's first two panels. So anyone on YSearch for would first have to know to set the search parameters down to 18.

    Rob

    Leave a comment:


  • efgen
    replied
    Originally posted by Judy
    Is Family Tree DNA aware of this? Someone I encouraged to get his DNA tested at FTDNA so he could compare his results with my husband's wound up testing with GeneBase but thought he was testing with FTDNA. Now he can't get into the haplogroup project at FTDNA and I feel somewhat responsible.
    Judy
    Judy,

    Considering that that issue was posted to the board with no indication that FTDNA has been notified by email, I wouldn't assume they have been. Since you are one of the people affected by this, my suggestion would be to send an email to FTDNA to ensure they are aware of the situation and let them know exactly what occured in your case. I don't know what kind of action they can take, but I'm sure they would at least like to know that they are losing business due to another company's deceptive practices.

    Elise

    Leave a comment:

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