Update on Dad's Deep Clade Haplogroup E, SNP Test

[clarkedenise]

Dear Dr. Ana & Greg,
I don't know if I had mentioned this past August, I ordered a Deep Clade E test on my father. Recently, it was posted that he is negative for P147. He previously was negative for M35/P2. He's positive for M96. I awaiting the remaining results. I'll keep you posted.
Denise

[GregKiroKHR1bL1]

That is certainly exciting news Denise. I do not think there are many Hg E* to my knowledge.

Believe it or not, I am still finding out about my deep clade R1b SNPs. I think most people do not remember that I said the following a few years ago (well with some updates):

My first 25 markers are clearly AMC. My results compared with the Super Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype showed 28% had the DYS390*24 to 23 mutation like me and 20% had the DYS385b*14 to 15 change as of late 2005. However, the newer markers 26-37 showed more mutations. I had six mutations out of twelve. 18% had the DYS460*11 to 10 mutation, 1% had the DYS456*16 to 18 mutation, 15% had the DYS607*15 to 16 mutation, 30% had the DYS576*18 to 17 mutation, 2% had the DYSCDYa*37 to 39 mutation, and 15% had the DYSCDYb*38 to 40 mutation. Various Internet sites claim that DYS390 = 25 is more Irish and DYS390 = 23 is more Germanic (2004). I also have DYS492=13 and DYS576=17, and my SNP for S21 was positive (2007). I was also L48/S162 positive which makes me negative for P312/S116 (2009)

The U106 project investigated the 18% had the DYS460 = 10 mutation for L48+ and L47- people. And CM called this the G group a few days ago which does not have its own SNP. I just ordered some additional testing since the Null group also have DYS46 = 10 mutation.

Technical info:
DYS 460 (~0.00402), 10 vs modal 11
DYS 456 (~0.00735), 18 vs modal 16 vs L48 modal 17
DYS 607 (~0.00411), 16 vs modal 15 vs 14 for some U106
H4=11, 447=25

I was thinking if you compared your haplotypes with other Hg E* people then you might find a STR with a high percentage non-modal value too. Hopefully, you will not have to wait four years for a SNP to be found to come close to an answer . . .

Hi Greg,
Just an update on the re-test of my Dad's Deep Clade E, came back the same Haplogroup E*. Need more people before a sub-clade can be determined. A cross -check will be with my Father's genetic match, his results are due in June, will keep you posted.
Denise

Like some of the super pros ~~ I am now trying to find the connection between civilization, language, and genetics. So, I am playing around with some essays . . .

I look at clusters of people after a period of time. If we do not have the date to look at individuals, then it is easier to look at groups. While some people have road blocks after three generations, many road blocks seem to appear after eight. Sixteen generations seem to focus on leaders and famous people while rulers and land owners become popular around forty generations. Language and civilizations begin to become very popular around 100 generations. Many migrations leading to settlements seem to occur after that until around 400 generations. Most of the arguments seem to focus on what happened during the Late Pleistocene. So, I focused on the rise of modern man or Homo sapiens.

Parents (first three generations, Filiations [Rank in family], Agnomen [Personal nickname]);
Family (first eight generations, Cognomen [Sept or family's nickname]);
Relatives (first sixteen generations [Nomen: Clan or name of tribe]);
Tribe (first thirty to forty generations [Praenomen: Given name from parents]);
Language haplogroup (first 90 - 150 generations)
Migration group (150 - 400 generations)
Late Pleistocene (various early haplogroups [not understood in 2009, debatable results])
Early Metal Age Hg (12 kya)
Older Dryas Hg (15 kya)
World Homo Dominance (18 -25 kya)
Divergent Homo Groups (35-45 kya)
The Homo sapiens' Journey (~60 kya)

A single tongue spoken 150,000 years ago has evolved into the estimated 6,000 languages used around the world today. According to Tishkoff (2009), there are 14 genetic clusters. 9 of them were in Africa while the 5 non-African genetic clusters were Caucasian, Indian, East Asian, Oceanian, and American. In 2007, Bauchet's study of Europeans produced 6 genetic clusters, 5 of which could be assigned to geographic regions in Spain, Basque Provinces, north Europe, southeast Europe, and Finnic Provinces. African languages were numerous, mostly static before the Bantu Expansion around 3000-2500 BC to about 1500 BC - 1000 AD. This is one example of how Western languages developed. Asian and other languages are somewhat a mystery to me.

At the same time around 3000 BC, the southern non-African language system was called the Semitic languages. The first evidence for writing came when permanent agrarian settlements replaced the Mideastern Asian hunter-gathers. This was deduced from examining incised "counting tokens" that appeared about 9,000 years ago in the Neolithic Fertile Crescent. Around 4100-3800 BCE, the tokens began to be symbols. They wrote about eating most of the time with a love for beer. Eventually, epigraphy gradually changed into paleography to orthography. At first, the symbols became pictographs and new symbols soon developed to begin to represent ideas called ideographs. Some type of language was used, but it was most likely developing with writing. The writings do not tell us the story of how they began to represent sounds and music. It is thought that acrophony developed with the alphabet. It all originated before 3000 BC to help record names of royalty, but there was still a need for vowels to be recognized. The Semitic language divided into Northwest Semitic, Northeast, Southwest and Southeast.

Northwest Semitic is divided into two major groups, Aramaic and Canaanite.
Canaanite is represented by Ugaritic, Phoenician, and Hebrew.
Northeast Semitic consists of the ancestral Akkadian, represented by Babylonian and Assyrian.
The Southwest and Southeast Semitic languages consisted of North and South Arabic and Ethiopic.

A tribe of nomads roaming the plains of Eastern Europe and Western Asia (~ Ukraine) as recently as about 3000 BC expanded the Indo-European languages (a popular theory). It most likely reached the Atlantic coast and other parts of the world one thousand years later. This was the language of the Northern regions.

The exact linguistic dividing line survives in modern Belgium, with its population speaking French in the south and Flemish in the north
The Romance family includes Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese and Romanian (200 BC)
The Germanic group is English, Dutch, Flemish, German, Danish, Norwegian, Swedish and Icelandic.
Romanized Celts were not strong enough to resist the invading German tribes, the Angles and the Saxons.
The Satem languages also undergo a different type of North (Baltic)/South (Slavic) split.


http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursede....aspx?cid=1600
(I found this on Amazon too . . . I hope it is as good as people say it is)

[clarkedenise]

Update on Re-Test

Hi Greg,
I am not sure...FTDNA deep snp for E, however it is being retested (E*) either 2 of the 4 that tested out at E* has been determined to actually be E1a, the subsequent test showed P147+. I'll keep you posted. However, if my results come back E1a than the other gentleman will also since him and my father match exactly at 25 and with 2 mutation difference at 37. So it is really becoming interesting. More of this is discussed under the E1a cluster at www.DNA-forums.org

Denise

Hi Greg,
Just an update on the re-test of my Dad's Deep Clade E, came back the same Haplogroup E*. Need more people before a sub-clade can be determined. A cross -check will be with my Father's genetic match, his results are due in June, will keep you posted.
Denise

[GregKiroKHR1bL1]

Checking Deep Clade Results

I never stopped looking at my deep clade results just because of a *. My most resent test generated the new SNP L48+. So, I check for new updates as the group finds them.

We have been typing on DNA-Forum for several years now . . . I hope you liked it too.

Hi Greg,
I am not sure...FTDNA deep snp for E, however it is being retested (E*) either 2 of the 4 that tested out at E* has been determined to actually be E1a, the subsequent test showed P147+. I'll keep you posted. However, if my results come back E1a than the other gentleman will also since him and my father match exactly at 25 and with 2 mutation difference at 37. So it is really becoming interesting. More of this is discussed under the E1a cluster at www.DNA-forums.org

Denise

[clarkedenise]

Dad's Results

I looked at http://www.phylotree.org for the updates to the mtDNA, and I looked at http://www.isogg.org/ for Y-DNA updates.

http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpE09.html isthe url for Hg E*. Is that the deep clade test?

Hi Greg,
I am not sure...FTDNA deep snp for E, however it is being retested (E*) either 2 of the 4 that tested out at E* has been determined to actually be E1a, the subsequent test showed P147+. I'll keep you posted. However, if my results come back E1a than the other gentleman will also since him and my father match exactly at 25 and with 2 mutation difference at 37. So it is really becoming interesting. More of this is discussed under the E1a cluster at www.DNA-forums.org

Denise

[GregKiroKHR1bL1]

I looked at http://www.phylotree.org for the updates to the mtDNA, and I looked at http://www.isogg.org/ for Y-DNA updates.

http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpE09.html isthe url for Hg E*. Is that the deep clade test?

[clarkedenise]

Updated Dad Y-DNA

Dear Dr. Ana & Greg,
My father's results were posted today. Dad Haplogroup is E M96+ P147- P68-
Now I have to figure out what this means. Any answers will be greatly appreciated.
Denise

Dear Group,
I updated my Father's Haplogroup in Y-DNA to E* based on the results posted earlier.

Denise
Y-DNA: E*
MTDNA: L1c
Fathers MTDNA: L3e1*

[clarkedenise]

Results finally for my father Deep Clade

Dear Dr. Ana & Greg,
My father's results were posted today. Dad Haplogroup is E M96+ P147- P68-
Now I have to figure out what this means. Any answers will be greatly appreciated.
Denise

[clarkedenise]

Update on Dad's Deep Clade E Results

Dear Dr. Ana & Greg,
I don't know if I had mentioned this past August, I ordered a Deep Clade E test on my father. Recently, it was posted that he is negative for P147. He previously was negative for M35/P2. He's positive for M96. I awaiting the remaining results. I'll keep you posted.
Denise

Hi Greg, My Dad doesn't get excited about these results as I do...Yesterday I received another email from FTDNA asking for understanding of the Negative P147, the response was if Dad tests positive for this next ancestral mutation he will be in a very uncommon haplogroup. Based on my paper trial I'm not surprised at all. His most distant male was Mulatto. However; we all know that the indication of race was based on the interpreter of the census taker. Also, my father does have a match with one individual at the 12/25/37 marker. More interesting with this individual, is that his most distant male 1st and middle name matches a name within my father's family tree on his maternal line. Of course have not been able to connect all the dots. I'll keep you posted.
Denise

[GregKiroKHR1bL1]

How did your dad react to his results Denise? My father said he did not understand all of the numbers when I showed him that he was hg A2. What a monent . . .

I looked up hg M96 on Wiki, and I found the following:

The hg M96 clade is divided into two sub-clades: E1 (or E-P147), defined by SNP mutation P147, and E2 (or E-M75), defined by M75. E1a and E2 are found almost exclusively in Africa, and only E1b1b is observed in significant frequencies in Europe and western Asia in addition to Africa. Most Sub-Saharan Africans belong to subclades of E other than E1b1b, while most non-Africans who belong to haplogroup E belong to its E1b1b subclade.

I am in awe by genetic testing. When I was a graduate student, I told my advisor that the particular class of chemicals we work on reacted with DNA. Now, we are publishing papers on the subject.

Wow, DNA holds the key to human history!

By 2005, there are about 6.45 billion people in the world with 13.8% in Africa, 60.7% in Asia, 11.2% in Europe, 8.7% in Latin American, 5.1% in North America, and 0.5% in Oceania. China had about 20% of the population while India had about 17%. The European Union had 7.3% of the population, and the United States had 4.6%. 14.2 % of the world's population was of Sub-Saharan descent, and 6.06% of the world population has some Spanish Ancestry. Today, the world population has increased to about 6.7 billion people.

Dear Dr. Ana & Greg,
I don't know if I had mentioned this past August, I ordered a Deep Clade E test on my father. Recently, it was posted that he is negative for P147. He previously was negative for M35/P2. He's positive for M96. I awaiting the remaining results. I'll keep you posted.
Denise

Have an exciting time uncovering your results, Denise.