When is National Genographic responding new Karaf

[mwwalsh]

Here is what National Genographic Project says this about R1b; "M343: Direct Descendants of Cro-Magnon ... Around 30,000 years ago, a descendant of the clan making its way into Europe gave rise to marker 343, the defining marker of your haplogroup. You are a direct descendant of the people who dominated human expansion into Europe, the Cro-Magnon."

The Aurignacion culture of Cro-Magnon man occurred approximately 34,000 to 18,000 years ago.

However, the latest YCC Y DNA haplogroup restructure study by Karefet,Behar,Hammer, et al, lists R1b's predecessor, R1, as being approximately 18,500 year ago. Their data and statistical methods are supposed to be the yet, but this clearly flies against National Genographic's description of R1b-M343 as Cro-Magnon. R1b-M343 is just plain too young.

I would think National Genographic should have updated its web site by now to reflect the this new information, or at least posted their position related to it. What is their position?

[darroll]

I would go with National Geographic.
They are still testing people from all over the world.
They have the most updated information.
And the largest database.

[Johnserrat]

The problem is that the Genographic Project is not using enough markers or SNPs to distinguish between population movements or to accurately judge who went where and when. It wasn't that long ago when I was told 8 markers were enough to find relatives and now I have 25 marker matches that are certainly not related to me in the past 500 years.

Without testing the downstream SNPs for haplogroups like R, I'm afraid the GP may not have much to offer in terms of key issues such as who the cro-magnon were who lived in Europe prior to the Last Global Maximum.

John

[mwwalsh]

The problem is that the Genographic Project is not using enough markers or SNPs to distinguish between population movements or to accurately judge who went where and when. ...

I agree that the limited # of markers is a problem, but that is not the issue here. They know I am R1b and they are smart enough to read the other literature. The know when the Cro-Magnon man lived, according to archeology. This new Karafet report that has reduced R1's age includes Dr. Hammer. Dr. Hammer does work with FTDNA. FTDNA is the lab that the National Genographic project. Dr. Wells of the National Genographic just hasn't chosen to respond with his position. He has one and he obviously knows what Karafet, et al are saying with what is supposed to be latest and greatest research.

[Johnserrat]

Based on Karafet, et al, there is no one plausible left among the main haplogroups in Europe to have formed part of the cro-magnon population.

I don't see Wells coming up with a reasonable alternative explanation with the limited data he will have available.

John

[darroll]

[QUOTE=
I don't see Wells coming up with a reasonable alternative explanation with the limited data he will have available.

John[/QUOTE]

He doesn't have to. The National Geographic is years ahead of the others
and the "others" don't like it.

[Johnserrat]

Wells certainly has the numbers, but does he have enough detail to make meaningful conclusions Darroll?

John

[darroll]

The history books shows that we came from France.
I fought that all my life.
Now the National Geographic shows we came from Northern France per our DNA match to that area. It really does not matter how many markers they have on us, It works.
We knew also that my grandmother came from Ireland. (H1)
National Geographic shows a match to Ireland.
Some day they will only have to test one marker to find out what country we came from.
d

[rivergirl]

One marker tells all.

Some day they will only have to test one marker to find out what country we came from.
d

Which marker do you think that will be Darroll.

[mwwalsh]

Based on Karafet, et al, there is no one plausible left among the main haplogroups in Europe to have formed part of the cro-magnon population. ...

I think there are still plausible haplogroup candidates, assuming the current Karafet study is correct. IJ or some "pre-I" would be a likely candidate since I has been in Europe along time and his predecessor could have been there before the Last Glacial Maximum.

[darroll]

Which marker do you think that will be Darroll.

Thats the reason we give these people the bucks..
They do have their trade secrets... And this is one..
d