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  • #16
    Hando:

    a few more words about the Manchu, Hsiung-Nu and what else.

    First of all: in general, scientists cannot distinguish say Scythians, Hsiung-Nu or other similar populations yet. Most likely, they had the same haplogroups as modern day east asian, so it's hard to say what was what.

    There are specific cases where people have made some hypotheses. One is Gengis Khan, and the other is the Manchu dynasty. Scientists have tested the STR of some people around Asia (see post above regarding STR) and have found that many people have the same STR values. So for instance, they have seen that there are very many people in Mongolia, Kazakhstan etc. with specific STR motifs, and have estimated the common ancestor of these people to be around 800-1000 years. Given the geographic distribution and the age, it seems natural to assume that this was a Mongol dynasty marker, perhaps Gengis Khan himself.

    A similar thing seems to happen in Manchuria. There are very many people in Manchuria who have a specific STR haplotype, and this is a few hundred years old. A natural guess then would be to assume that this is the lineage of the Manchu dynasty.

    So essentially these tests are simple STR tests (see above) - simply, if one STR match those studied in the these scientific papers, one can hypothesize about a possible Mongol or Manchurian origin.

    But these are very specific cases. And they don't apply to you, because these two haplotypes are in haplogroup C, whereas you are in haplogroup O. As far as I know, nothing has been found (yet) about Korea, ie about whether the Korean dynasties have left some particular genetic marker.

    (There's also something to be said about O2 being Siberian. Sometimes the genographic project generalizes too much. Haplogroup O is by far the most common in China, but it's not that frequent in Siberia).

    cacio

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Hando
      ...having read TribesDNA and AncestrybyDNA, I feel as confused as ever. All the terminologies they use like STRs SNPs, its throwing me off. It appears as if they are saying they can help me, but then again no they appear unable to help me.
      What about ethnoancestry? They seem to be able to help with such things as if one has Manchu ancestry or Pictish ancestry. That is the sort of thing I am interested in, but I dont know if that is the only genome they can give you?...
      Tribes and AbDNA use different marker sets and perform different analyses.

      Tribes' marker set is 15 biallelic, highly mutable STR's that yield 30 data points and they compare your entire profile to profiles from populations around the world to give you a likelihood estimate of 'match' to those populations.

      AbDNA uses 175 biallelic, comparatively stable SNP's that yield 350 datatpoints and perform an ancestry mapping analysis against a SMALL sample of world populations. The SNP's can be ancient and are 'somewhat' characteristic of generic populations - Indo-European, SubSaharan African, East Asian and Native American.

      No one can predict what your results might be. But if you are going to do an autosomal test for ancestry you ought to test as far back in your lines as possible - your parents or grandparents - for the sake of getting a less recombined reading.

      Obviously if you did AbDNA and they read you as 100% East Asian that would be no help. But your parents 'might' show different traces.

      But if your lineages have been wholly Asian, they may have conserved ancient signatures that could appear in Tribes's analysis. Again your parents would be the better candidates for the test as it 'might' reveal which line, if any, bears 'unusual' signature for an Asian.

      Tribes' advantage is their large and growing database of reference populations and specialized assessments such as a Central Asian panel. Their specialized asessments and updates are affordable. If you elect to go with Tribes you will have to do their Plus test before you can get a Panel or their very useful report comparing your results to their entire database. Each cost $25, sa does each update but all updates includes updates of Panels and reports already ordered.

      Ethnoancestry does deep Y tests now. They have been promsing an autosmal test for a couple of years. Their autosomal test has yet to be released.

      All autosomal test are a 'shot in the dark' and people sometimes get strange results. But as you seem to be interested in the unusual they might be just 'your cup of tea'

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      • #18
        Originally posted by tomcat
        Ethnoancestry does deep Y tests now.
        By this do you mean their Deep Haplogroup Tests?
        If so, unfortunately, it is not offered for Haplogroup 02.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Hando
          Vinnie that is a good point, however all my grandparents have passed away.
          But did your grandparents and great-grandparents leave descendants (besides you)? For example, besides yourself, you can test the yDNA of:

          - Your mother's brother's son

          - Your father's mother's brother's son's son

          - Your mother's mother's brother's son's son.

          Besides yourself, you can test the mtDNA of:

          - Your father's sister's child

          - Your mother's father's sister's daughter's child

          - Your father's father's sister's daughter's child.

          All of these are equivalent to lines of descent that lead to you.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by lgmayka
            But did your grandparents and great-grandparents leave descendants (besides you)? For example, besides yourself, you can test the yDNA of:

            - Your mother's brother's son

            - Your father's mother's brother's son's son

            - Your mother's mother's brother's son's son.

            Besides yourself, you can test the mtDNA of:

            - Your father's sister's child

            - Your mother's father's sister's daughter's child

            - Your father's father's sister's daughter's child.

            All of these are equivalent to lines of descent that lead to you.
            Those are definite options. I suppose this hobby can get a bit pricey!

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by tomcat
              So Sorry Mr, Hando. I thought my response to your's was more fulsome than that. I will no longr respond to your public agonizing. There are plenty here who will....
              Is that necessary? I thought we were all grown ups here?
              I am new to this and only thought I would get advice from those who seem to know more than me. I appreciate those who have shown graciousness and generosity of spirit. Traits that seem quite abundant on this forum otherwise.
              Last edited by Hando; 29 November 2007, 10:07 PM.

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              • #22
                . .

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                • #23
                  I tested with the Genographic Project, AncestryByDna, and DNA Tribes.
                  One one hand I'd say save your money & emotions and don't bother. But that is a personal decision/journey everyone has to make on their own. It was quite a journey for me. If it is what you really want then try ABDNA & DNA Tribes. ABDNA may say you're 100% Asian, or they might not. You could have something completely unexpected. If DNA Tribes matches you to some places outside of Asia that would be fascinating. You can learn more about world history just from trying to find out how one groups dna can be found within anothers. The Portuguese and the Dutch were in Japan centuries ago. What if you match some small amount of Japanese or Flemish? And they brought musicians with them from India to Japan.
                  If it would bother you and you wouldn't want to know then don't test. If knowing all you can know about your genetic ancestry is important to you, then test. There has been criticism of the autosomal tests, and I did a lot of complaining and criticizing about it too. But, to me, it's worth it to know.
                  I have over 2 hundred matches over 1.0 in my extended report. Some say to ignore the low numbers, but that is coming from people who have a huge difference in scores. Almost all of my matches are in the single digits, even most of my top 20 matches are single digits. I have known, documented, recent ancestry found in the extended report, at 2. and 3.
                  If you get the DNA Tribes also order the extended matches. Whatever original reports you order you can have updates on later, in case more markers are added or more populations are added.
                  Last edited by rainbow; 30 November 2007, 08:05 AM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by lgmayka
                    But did your grandparents and great-grandparents leave descendants (besides you)? For example, besides yourself, you can test the yDNA of:

                    - Your mother's brother's son

                    - Your father's mother's brother's son's son

                    - Your mother's mother's brother's son's son.

                    Besides yourself, you can test the mtDNA of:

                    - Your father's sister's child

                    - Your mother's father's sister's daughter's child

                    - Your father's father's sister's daughter's child.

                    All of these are equivalent to lines of descent that lead to you.

                    Originally posted by Hando
                    Those are definite options. I suppose this hobby can get a bit pricey!
                    While some shake their heads at autosomal tests, I shake my head when I read that some people are testing relatives like this. If there was a "non-paternal event" or adoption somewhere along there then whatever mtdna & ydna that relative has would not mean anything if you want to know your own personal ancestry. But if you want to fill out the family tree with all the different mtdna & ydna of cousins, you can do that if you want to. That would be very expensive.
                    Last edited by rainbow; 30 November 2007, 08:24 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by rainbow
                      I tested with the Genographic Project, AncestryByDna, and DNA Tribes.
                      One one hand I'd say save your money & emotions and don't bother. But that is a personal decision/journey everyone has to make on their own. It was quite a journey for me. If it is what you really want then try ABDNA & DNA Tribes. ABDNA may say you're 100% Asian, or they might not. You could have something completely unexpected. If DNA Tribes matches you to some places outside of Asia that would be fascinating. You can learn more about world history just from trying to find out how one groups dna can be found within anothers. The Portuguese and the Dutch were in Japan centuries ago. What if you match some small amount of Japanese or Flemish? And they brought musicians with them from India to Japan.
                      If it would bother you and you wouldn't want to know then don't test. If knowing all you can know about your genetic ancestry is important to you, then test. There has been criticism of the autosomal tests, and I did a lot of complaining and criticizing about it too. But, to me, it's worth it to know.
                      I have over 2 hundred matches over 1.0 in my extended report. Some say to ignore the low numbers, but that is coming from people who have a huge difference in scores. Almost all of my matches are in the single digits, even most of my top 20 matches are single digits. I have known, documented, recent ancestry found in the extended report, at 2. and 3.
                      If you get the DNA Tribes also order the extended matches. Whatever original reports you order you can have updates on later, in case more markers are added or more populations are added.
                      Thanks Rainbow. Seems like everyone is saying do either DNA Tribes autosomal or ABDNA autosomal. Now I need to decide which of the two. Decisions decisions...

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by rainbow
                        While some shake their heads at autosomal tests, I shake my head when I read that some people are testing relatives like this. If there was a "non-paternal event" or adoption somewhere along there then whatever mtdna & ydna that relative has would not mean anything if you want to know your own personal ancestry. But if you want to fill out the family tree with all the different mtdna & ydna of cousins, you can do that if you want to. That would be very expensive.
                        Rainbow, valid point, but if a person is confident that there weren't any non-paternaity events within a given time frame, testing other relatives is an option. At this point, I'm opting for the tests that are more specific and verifiable, but I won't rule out the autosomals for future testing. By the way, my Hg X great-grandmother was adopted; fortunately we know in what town she was born, although we don't know the circumstances of her birth. However, through searching the U.S. Social Security Death Index, I found the name of the man she listed as her real father, which was a surprise to all of us. Unfortunately, she didn't name her real mother, but I've heard that relatives still live in that town. Regardless, I now have a paternal surname for her that's relatively rare and found in an entirely different part of Italy.

                        Vinnie
                        Last edited by vinnie; 2 December 2007, 09:06 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Question regarding my Haplogroup results

                          Hello everyone.

                          I am new to this forum so please bear with me!

                          The subject matter I am presenting has to do in relation to the mitosearch website and the genographic project.

                          My Genographic Project results revealed that I belonged to the U5 haplogroup. When I transferred my results to the mitosearch site for any genetic matches, most of the close matches I had were in the U5 haplogroup and were only -1 mutation from mine. There were a few, however, that were in the U5a and U5a1 subgroups but had one extra mutation from my sequence. My question is, is that I have seen Genographic participants in the haplogroup/ subgroup databases that were classified into subgroups with no HVR2 tests. Even though the U5a and U5a1 subgroups are very close to mine, how does the Genographic Project classify the HVR1 mutations in subgroups whilst some are U5 like me? If anybody has anything regarding this, it would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!

                          Here are my HVR1 mutations if any of you are wondering:

                          16114A, 16256T, 16270T, 16294T, 16350G, 16526A

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