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  • Refining Genographic Test results

    Hi, I need your advice please. I took the Genographic test, but its too basic. I need to know what other tests I can take which will give me more info on less ancient ancestries and also where these ancestors came from. By less recent I mean eg. 2000, 3000, 4000 years ago, not so recent as 150 years ago, since I know about my ggparents etc.

    I am new to all this, but have been reading posts here about people with results form DNA Tribes, ethnoancestry, Oxford Ancestors etc. Should I take any of these? Will the FamilyTree Y DNA 67 or 37 marker test?

    I took the Genographic test and got my YDNA results back as Haplogroup 02. This is nothing new to me. I know I am Korean and both my parents, g parents, ggparents etc are Korean. All that the Genogpraphic test told me was that 30,000 years ago a man in Siberia was my ancestor.

    This is too obvious and basic.
    I want to know if there were any other ancestors apart from my 30,000 yo Siberian ancestor in my Y DNA.

    For example, I have been told that circa 2000 years ago, my ancestors may have been part of the founders of the Silla Dynasty, which may have been Scythians according to a recent forum poster here.

    http://www.familytreedna.com/forum/s...ght=huns+korea

    Are there any tests that can show me if this is true? Are there tests that can show me that apart from my YDNA Haplogroup 02 from 30,000, I had more recent male or female ancestors who came from other parts of the world, such as central asia, europe, africa etc?
    Basically, these would be way after 30,000 and more like 3000, 2000, 1000 etc years ago. And where they originated from?
    Knowing that I had a Siberian ancestor from 30,000 simply isnt enough for me. I want to know more about other ancestors originating from other places and times.
    Thank you
    Hando

    My second question is.... Before I got to this site, I bought and sent back the oxfordancestors Matriline test. If I had know, I would have taken the Family Tree MtDNA full sequence test. But will the Family Tree MtDNA Full Sequence test help me locate any female ancestors from say 2000, 3000, 1000, 4000 etc? Or will both these mitrochondrial tests give me similar results? Ie In what way is the FamilyTRee Full sequence test better for someone who is trying to locate more recent ancestors from say 9000 - 1000 years ago and their origins?
    Last edited by Hando; 27 November 2007, 07:42 AM. Reason: Revision

  • #2
    Hando:

    for the male line, the 67 marker test can identify much closer lineages, eg something in the order of, say, 10 generations, so just a few hundred years. However, this works by matching yourself with another person, that is, if you find another person who matches you at 67 markers, or is relatively close, then you know the two of you have a recent common ancestor. This gives information if there is a large database of people, which may be true of the UK or other Nordic countries, but is not true of Asia. In other words, you probably have already few matches at 12 markers, obviously at 67 you'll have even less. But somebody needs to start getting tested, after all. May be in a few years the databases will be large enough.

    For the female line, even the full mtdna test cannot identify short time spans. Theoretically, you may be able to identify a common ancestor in the order of 2000 years or so, but not much more. But as for the Y dna test, you need a large database of people who have tested, which simply doesn't exist, especially for Asia.

    cacio

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    • #3
      Hi Cacio, thanks for the reply. You mentioned that the Y 67 test will help identify if I and another person share a common ancestor roughly 10 generations ago etc.
      However, what I am looking for is a test that will help identify several male or female ancestors and their origins from say 8000 to 1000 years ago.

      The Genogrpahic Y-DNA test could only identify 1 ancestor (Haplo 02) from Siberia about 30,000 years ago. But this is only just one ancestor and far too distant for me.

      I am looking for some kind of test that can identify several other ethnicities (such as the Scythian intruders to Korea 2000 years ago, Huns/HsuingNu 1000 years ago etc) from various other areas of the world and eras.

      I hear talk about Tribes DNA being able to give a break down such as 87% European 13% Amerindian etc. Or such tests such as;

      Ethnoancestry.com (Does deeper levels of Haoplgroup O)
      YSTR27 TEST

      http://www.ethnoancestry.com/Manchu.html

      Haploview Test
      http://www.ethnoancestry.com/haploview.htm

      YSTR45 TEST
      http://www.ethnoancestry.com/STR45.htm

      Ancestrybydna.com

      Are these tests what I am looking for or are there others that can help me?
      Thanks.
      Last edited by Hando; 27 November 2007, 09:01 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Hando
        ...
        I hear talk about Tribes DNA being able to give a break down such as 87% European 13% Amerindian etc...
        AncestrybyDNA is the autosomal test that breaks down ancestry by percentages but I don't think it is fine-grained enough for your interests. You should visit their site and READ EVERYTHING to see for yourself if it is right for you. (www.ancestrybydna.com)

        DNATribes uses even fewer autosomal markers but does have a much broader database of world populations than AbDNA. They do offer a Central Asian panel. Again, I urge you to visit the site, read the FAQ, check-out their list of populations, download some of their free sample reports and judge for yourself. (www.dnatribes.com)

        Two new companies have just launched that offer genome-wide scans (up to one million SNP's). However, their ancestry analysis is not very well developed as of yet. Again, visit, READ, and make your own decision. (www.23andMe.com) (www.deCODEme.com).

        Comment


        • #5
          Hando,

          Another strategy you can try is to have basic tests done on as many branches of your family as possible. You've already done your direct paternal and maternals lineages - is it possible for you to have basic tests done for your mother's father's lineage and your father's mother's lineage? Is it possible to have tests done for any of your great-grandparents? Although you have millions of ancestors over the centuries, this just might turn up something. Although my country of origin, Italy, is known to be diverse, I was still surprised by the diversity within just four lines of my own family and I hope to do basic testing on extended cousins who represent my other great grandparents. Of course, money is always a consideration. By the way, if you haven't already uploaded your Genographic results to FTDNA, you might get more information just from doing that. I'm not familiar with your haplogroup, but the Geno Proj listed my results just as "J", but immediately after uploading to FTDNA, without any additional testing, I knew I was "J1"

          Vinnie

          Comment


          • #6
            Cacio, after having read TribesDNA and AncestrybyDNA, I feel as confused as ever. All the terminologies they use like STRs SNPs, its throwing me off. It appears as if they are saying they can help me, but then again no they appear unable to help me.
            What about ethnoancestry? They seem to be able to help with such things as if one has Manchu ancestry or Pictish ancestry. That is the sort of thing I am interested in, but I dont know if that is the only genome they can give you?

            Vinnie that is a good point, however all my grandparents have passed away. I noticed that on your YDNA you had listed several markers. That is something I am interested in. Genographic only gives me 1. Haplogroup 02. What I want is something that can help me identify several others that are more recent than 30,000 years ago. How did you arrive at your several markers?
            Thanks

            PS. I did upload my Genographic results to FamilyTreeDNA.
            Now I need to find out how I can see them here...

            Comment


            • #7
              Autosomes are the way to go for recent ancestry and forensic work even if it needs development. This includes X-DNA and Y-DNA. Also, I would only do Full-mtDNA for best results. Keep the actual numbers for future research . . .

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by GregKiroKHR1bL1
                Autosomes are the way to go for recent ancestry and forensic work even if it needs development. This includes X-DNA and Y-DNA. Also, I would only do Full-mtDNA for best results. Keep the actual numbers for future research . . .
                So Greg, for autosomes, which would you recommend? The Ethnoancestry, TribesDNA or Ancestry byDNA.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by GregKiroKHR1bL1
                  Also, I would only do Full-mtDNA for best results. Keep the actual numbers for future research . . .
                  I suppose the Matrilne test I purchased from OxfordAncestors isnt good enough then...Oh well, I suppose I will have to redo my MtDNA by purchasing the FamilyTreeDNA's Full Matrilinial Test at some future date. I wish I had known about it before I purchased the Oxford Martiline. Seems I need to spend money redundantly...
                  Last edited by Hando; 27 November 2007, 12:19 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Ethanoancestry test is coming soon.

                    DNA Tribes has not given me the same result twice. I did like having the CODIS markers to play around with in OmniPop

                    AbDNA did match my paper work somewhat and some of my DNA Tribe and OmniPop scores

                    FTDNA will give you the data to play around with

                    Professional - not ready to spend the cash on one yet, need more data

                    It depends. If you want to do all the work yourself, I would get the data from FTDNA which I think is fun. If you want an expert opinion, but do not want to spend a bunch of cash for the paper work, then do any one of the three. I did AbDNA first because they had more markers, and I thought they would give me a detailed listing of their 175 markers. They kept their marker details a secret. So, I also took the DNA Tribes test. Even thou, I never got a consistent result from them. Having the markers were more fun to explore and check things. OmniPop was the most fun. So, I picked up some extra markers from FTDNA.


                    Originally posted by Hando
                    So Greg, for autosomes, which would you recommend? The Ethnoancestry, TribesDNA or Ancestry byDNA.
                    Last edited by GregKiroKHR1bL1; 27 November 2007, 12:39 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by GregKiroKHR1bL1
                      Ethanoancestry test is coming soon.

                      DNA Tribes has not given me the same result twice. I did like having the CODIS markers to play around with in OmniPop

                      AbDNA did match my paper work somewhat and some of my DNA Tribe and OmniPop scores

                      FTDNA will give you the data to play around with

                      Professional - not ready to spend the cash on one yet, need more data

                      It depends. If you want to do all the work yourself, I would get the data from FTDNA which I think is fun. If you want an expert opinion, but do not want to spend a bunch of cash for the paper work, then do any one of the three. I did AbDNA first because they had more markers, and I thought they would give me a detailed listing of their 175 markers. They kept their marker details a secret. So, I also took the DNA Tribes test. Even thou, I never got a consistent result from them. Having the markers were more fun to explore and check things. OmniPop was the most fun. So, I picked up some extra markers from FTDNA.
                      Hi Greg, so am I correct in assuming that all three tests, ethnoancestry, DNATribes and AbDNA test for the same thing? At this point I need an expert opinion even if it means spending the money, as I am new and I cant trust to rely on my own paper work if I study the data from FTDNA.
                      From the results you got I may have to go with either ethnoancestry or AbDNA, since you said Tribes gave you different results twice?
                      PS. What do you mean by "Professional?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hando
                        Vinnie that is a good point, however all my grandparents have passed away. I noticed that on your YDNA you had listed several markers. That is something I am interested in. Genographic only gives me 1. Haplogroup 02. What I want is something that can help me identify several others that are more recent than 30,000 years ago. How did you arrive at your several markers?...
                        Hando, my father tested for his mother's line, and a second cousin tested for my mother's father's line because that grandfather had no sons. But if your mother has a brother, he could do it for you. As for my additional markers, I had deep snp and other refining tests for my yDNA and subclade and high resolution tests done for my mtDNA.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I did the HVR-I & II test before doing a full mtDNA. I had another company do my full mtDNA just as a check. This is what we do in the laboratory for new test. It is a cheap why to do quality control. Also, each company has their unique character. If they did these tests in 1800, I would not be having the same problems I have today. For me, the full mtDNA was for entertainment and research. There are some things about it I will not understand for ten years or so. To me, the data is the most important thing I need.

                          Originally posted by Hando
                          I suppose the Matrilne test I purchased from OxfordAncestors isnt good enough then...Oh well, I suppose I will have to redo my MtDNA by purchasing the FamilyTreeDNA's Full Matrilinial Test at some future date. I wish I had known about it before I purchased the Oxford Martiline. Seems I need to spend money redundantly...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hando:

                            other people have given some info.

                            I don't know much about the autosomal tests (ABDNA, DNA tribes and the like). They claim to look at many parts of the DNA and thus be able to capture various genetic influences. However, they won't highlight specific lineages, ie they won't say whether something is from your paternal line etc. Moreover, I think they are very imprecise, with great margin errors. For instance, if they say that there is a 10% Caucasian component, this means the Caucasian component could actually be zero.

                            The other two types of tests (Y-dna for the paternal line and mtdna for the maternal line) are more clearly understood.

                            For the Y-chromosome test, in one sentence, SNP means finding out that you are 02 (which you know already), perhaps some further subgroup, eg O2a or the like. But we're talking about tens of thousands of years, nothing recent. STR are the 12 or so numbers which you probably have already from FTDNA. The more STR markers you test, the closer you can get. With 67 markers, you can get pretty close, as mentioned in the previous email. However, as said, it's about matching with other people. For instance, if you match another person on all 67 markers, it means you are very closely related, if you match, say, 60 out of 67, it means you are related, but perhaps 1,000 year ago or so.

                            As for Ethnoancestry, they do Y chromosome STR and SNP tests. With the haploview, they can check whether you are O2a or O2b, but that's not much more than you know already. So in this case it would be more a doublecheck of your results. The STR is the same as FTDNA STR test, just with 27 or 45 markers instead of 37 or 67 markers.

                            More about the Manchu etc. test in the next post.

                            cacio

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I thought each test from the autosomes is still being developed. When I was looking for a company to do my first test, I went to a company that did very complex work with finding parents. And they recommended me to do FTDNA, the laboratory that did their work. I have enough paper work to go back many generations. Many of the large companies are doing forensic and legal work, and I do not need that. FTDNA was best for the person looking into genealogy. Many profession genealogists are just learning how to use genetics in their work. So, I would most like contact Ancestry.com to help me find someone who could use my data or I could interview recommended professional genealogist who felt they could use the data. There is also the medical side of the story which is another story.

                              <<Joke warning: I could also contact Bleb bleb bleb from Hooterville. Joke warning off>>

                              Originally posted by Hando
                              Hi Greg, so am I correct in assuming that all three tests, ethnoancestry, DNATribes and AbDNA test for the same thing? At this point I need an expert opinion even if it means spending the money, as I am new and I cant trust to rely on my own paper work if I study the data from FTDNA.
                              From the results you got I may have to go with either ethnoancestry or AbDNA, since you said Tribes gave you different results twice?
                              PS. What do you mean by "Professional?

                              Comment

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