Haplogruop W -Magyar?

[Irene Sandor]

HI ,I just got the result of my Genographic test .I belong to the Haplogroup W 292T 519C. I was born in Eastern Hungary,in the Carpathian area. Since the Magyars entered that area in the 9th century AC does that mean that I belong to the original settlers in the area who established in the middle Upper Paleolithic and who after the Magyars arrival learned their Uralic language?
Any Magyars in the forum? Any W of Hungarian ,Czeck or Slovac origen?
I would love to learn more about haplogruop W .It seams we are scarce.
Irenke

[cacio]

Irene:

haplogroup W is present from Pakistan to Europe- and all over Europe, so it is certainly very ancient in Europe and predates the Magyars by far. (The Magyar themselves, of course, probably had some W too).

Is 292T 519C all or do you have 223 as well?

cacio

[Irene Sandor]

YES 292T and 519C is all I have...No 223 .What does that mean ?.Am I that prehistoric?
Does anyone know which are the characteristic Magyar markers?
Do fewer mutation marquers mean a more unbroken line ? So do I come from a succesful and long line of women who for 25000 years managed to have and raise daugthers in an uninterrupted line ? HOW WONDERFUL!!!!!
I have three very intelligent and succesful daugthers so the line goes on ,,,,

[cacio]

Irene:

most W have a "mutation" at 16223. If you don't, then you must belong to a special subgroup of haplogroup W, characterized by the lack of 16223. This may help in finding matches or identifying origins.

As for the number or lack of mutations, this gets a little complicated. The results that you got are for a specific section of the mtdna called HVR1. This is only a small section of the mtdna. What the results show are the _differences_ from a baseline comparison sequence called CRS (common reference sequence) in that region of mtdna. So fewer markers, so to speak, means fewer differences from CRS - ie, there have been less mutations between you and CRS. That's all. The case of 16223 is a little complicated, so I'll leave it at there.

I am not an expert on the ancient Magyars who moved to the area of modern day Hungary, so I hope others will help here. I think in looking for Magyar traces, people assume that Magyars had East or Central Asian haplogroups (eg. like A-D, G, F, M), of which there are very few in Hungary - as anywhere else in Europe. W is European rather than Asian. But of course, we don't really know what the ancient Magyars were like, so these are all hypotheses.

cacio

[Irene Sandor]

Hi Cacio

Thank you for the reply. So I am from a subgroup .Any more information about that subgroup? Where are most of us located?. Eastern Europe I pressume.
Where are most W223T,292T,519C located ?

[cacio]

Irene:

I don't know much about W, so I wouldn't know. You've probably checked your matches on mitosearch:

http://www.mitosearch.org/search_results.asp?comparison_type=Standard&uid=WUYR4

(you will have to scroll down after the hundreds of 519 H that are not relevant for you).

of 223-292-519 there are may be a hundred or more, all over Europe. But 292-519, there are only 2 others in addition to yourself. One from an unknown place (but the name sounds English) and one from Czechoslovakia. (The other two are listed as N* - they may be W as well, since W is a daughter of N*).

Given the peculiarity of your HVR1, it seems you are one of the cases where HVR2 can possibly add information. Not because you'd find matches (you already have only 2), but because HVR2 may be useful to place you within the larger W subgroup. However, I hope someone more knowledgeable of W will halp here.

cacio

[lgmayka]

Where are most W223T,292T,519C located ?

11 of the 205 mtDNA entries in my Polish-Lithuanian-Belarusian-Ukrainian-Latvian project belong to haplogroup W:

http://www.ftdna.com/ftGroups_mtdna_frame.asp?kit=D4486&SEQUENCE=YES&SHOWKIT=True&SHOWLASTNAME=A&PUBLICWEBSITE=TRUE

But all 11 have the 16223T mutation.

Interestingly, many of the 11 are actually geographical outliers from the Czech Republic, Slovakia, or Hungary. (For example, if a man's patrilineal line is Polish but his matrilineal line is Slovak, I consider his Slovak mtDNA "close enough" to keep on the web site instead of removing it.)

[PDHOTLEN]

Zha Zha Gabor is Magyar

Zha Zha (spelling) and Eva Gabor, the movie stars, are/were supposedly Hungarian. Can their mtDNA be accessed?

The Hungarian language looks to be related to Finnish and Estonian.

[Irene Sandor]

Yes ,Magyar,Finnish and Estonian era classified as Uralic languages .I speak Hungarian .When Magyars moved into what is now Hungary the original inhabitants in the area adopted the new language . In Roman times they spoke Latin .We Hungarians are always having to learn new languages....

[PDHOTLEN]

I wonder...

I keep wondering what the original Magyars looked like. Were they somewhat eastern-looking, like the Turkic peoples? Or were they similar to Slavs, and tending toward blondness? Or something unique?

Looking at Hungarians today, that is the occasional person who claims to be of Hungarian descent, they are all over the spectrum - from blonds to Turkic.

[PDHOTLEN]

W tidbit

I read, in passing, that the Mansi have "W" among them. The Mansi were probabbly neighbors of the Magyars before the Magyars moved westward from Western Siberia. Both Mansi and Magyars belong to the small Ugric language group (related to Finnish).