origin of R 1 b

[Stevo]

Until data comes out that is based on confirmed SNPs, I wouldn't pay too much attention to this type of an analysis.

Timothy Peterman

I agree. My OGAP group (I forget which it is) is pretty much what Oppenheimer called His "FMH" (Frisian Modal Haplotype). Most of the guys in it are R-U106* and I am R-P312* (aka R-S116*).

[Haganus]

But where was the home land of the Haplgroup R 1b? Southwest-Europe
or the Ukraine? And when did the haplogroup arise? About 8000 BC or
30.000 BC?

[Stevo]

But where was the home land of the Haplgroup R 1b? Southwest-Europe
or the Ukraine? And when did the haplogroup arise? About 8000 BC or
30.000 BC?

There is a lot of debate on those topics. Dr. Ken Nordtvedt, Vince Vizachero, and others have estimated that R-M269 is relatively young, somewhere in the neighborhood of 7,000-8,000 years old.

The recent Karafet et al paper (2008) estimated the age of R1 (M173) at 18,500 years, and R1b1b2 cannot be older than its own ancestor R1. Of course, the confidence interval on that R1 age estimate extends to 25,000 years, but that is the upper limit.

R1b1b2 diversity increases as one moves east across Europe and into Asia. It seems that it may be highest in Anatolia (modern Turkey) and Armenia, so R1b1b2 may have first arisen in that vicinity.

But we have a lot to learn and aren't even close to having all the answers.

[GregKiroKHR1bL1]

Gene Tree Frequency Distributions

Well, after all of this and that, this is how it looked to me:

Part I: R-M207
Appears as if the primary migration node intersection (x-E. Yemen, y-S. Scotland)
Route A towards India
Route B towards Germany and Atlantic Costal Region
mild communication to Central Asia even less westward and southern
mild communication North Central Africa domain slightly towards Central Western Bantu

Part II: R1a1-M17
Heavy migration to southeast of Aral Sea towards Northwestern Kashmir area
Mild communication with R-M207 home
Mild communication with R-M269 migration to central Europe

Part III: R1b1b2-M269
Primary migration to the Atlantic Coast region
mild communcation to Middle Eastern Asia and Aral Sea region

Part IV: R1b1b2a1-M405/U106/S21
European, Expanded Atlantic Coastal Region especially Belgium, the Netherlands and coastally Northwest of the Benrath line