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  • Food Supply and Migration

    I am kicking around some ideas of the aurochs [cows in caveman drawings] from India. It seems logical that as the aurochs moved out of India, people from Africa would start to follow them. The climate and diet change would help the formation of new mutations. Of course, this argument could be expanded to all sorts of animals and plants.

  • #2
    fish as food

    I imagine that the unpolluted seas, lakes & rivers of the Pleistocene (Ice Age) & even later, were jumping with fish. So I can imagine that not all the prehistoric tribes were hunting red meat on a daily basis.

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    • #3
      My earliest ideas focused on the fact that many ancient migrations occurred along water ways, east Africa, India, and Australia. Some people loved the fish, and I guess some people did not eat cow. After all, cooked hamburger did not make it to America until the twentieth century?

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      • #4
        re wild cattle

        I recall reading somewhere, ages ago, that the Neanderthals in what is now Iraq hunted the wild cattle (Aurox or etc.) along the rivers there.

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        • #5
          I think I understand . . . we could look at this from biochemical studies. The cow milk became a food for some people as other people developed lactose intolerance. I wonder if the Neanderthals drank milk. I am almost sure the R1b people did.

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          • #6
            no, really

            I'm not very witty. I really meant what I said. There was evidence that Neanderthals hunted wild ox in Mesapotamia.

            There was also a species of wild ox in Europe. They became extinct in historical times. Now some zoos are trying to bring them back thru gentetic breeding. But don't ask where I read that.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by GregKiroKH2
              The cow milk became a food for some people as other people developed lactose intolerance.
              No one "developed" lactose intolerance. Adult lactose intolerance is the normal state of the entire Class of Mammals, including humans. Lactose tolerance--or more precisely, the lactase persistence allele--occurred only within the last 9000 years, and spread widely across northern Europe only within the past 7000 years.

              Other, independent lactase persistence alleles have arisen in some locales in Africa and the Middle East.

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              • #8
                The most accepted notion is that the cows were hunted before the Bronze Age. Milk could be obtained from human sources. So, why would someone obtain milk from a cow?

                No one knows how early man first reacted to milk. It must have been good enough for some people thou. I know I love it, and it makes me feel great. The first amino acid was discovered in 1806 in asparagus juice by Louis-Nicolas Vauquelin (1763-1829) and Pierre Jean Robiquet (1780 -1840). It was called asparagine. The last of the twenty fundamental amino acids was discovered in 1935. It was called threonine. William Cumming Rose discovered and structurally characterized the amino acid threonine. Having found that the milk protein, casein, was essential in a healthy rat's diet, he discovered the threonine in the casein was an essential amino acid, and must be obtained from the diet.

                Babies are thought to enjoy their mother's milk because it was a common food. I hope all babies can enjoy mother's milk. The cow's milk most likely was also discovered to be a good food. And I would assume it made them feel great. This must have to do with some sort of genetics since histidine and arginine are essential amino acids only in children which suggest our dietary needs change as we grow older.

                The use of milk as a beverage probably began with the domestication of animals. Goats and sheep were domesticated in the area now known as Iran and Afghanistan in about 9000 B.C., and by about 7000 B.C. cattle were being herded in what is now Turkey and parts of Africa. The method for making cheese from milk was known to the ancient Greeks and Romans, and the use of milk and milk products spread throughout Europe in the following centuries.
                http://www.madehow.com/Volume-4/Milk.html
                The origin of when, how, and who discovered milk remains largely a mystery.
                http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Milk
                The earliest record suggesting man's use of animals' milk as food was unearthed in a temple in the Euphrates Valley near Babylon. An archaeologist found a mosaic frieze believed to be about 5,000 years old. This means that milk was first used as food around 3000 BC.

                Of course there is no way to know who or which tribe started using milk first.

                The word "Milk" seems to come from the old Saxon "meoluc" or the Anglian "milc" both related to the old verb "melcan" meaning "to milk."
                http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/3066
                Last edited by GregKiroKH2; 11 June 2007, 05:55 PM.

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                • #9
                  LP does not mean that 20,000 years ago adult people did not tolerate milk.

                  Lactase persistence (LP), the dominant Mendelian trait conferring the ability to digest the milk sugar lactose in adults, has risen to high frequency in central and northern Europeans in the last 20,000 years. This trait is likely to have conferred a selective advantage in individuals who consume appreciable amounts of unfermented milk. Some have argued for the "culture-historical hypothesis," whereby LP alleles were rare until the advent of dairying early in the Neolithic but then rose rapidly in frequency under natural selection. Others favor the "reverse cause hypothesis," whereby dairying was adopted in populations with preadaptive high LP allele frequencies. Analysis based on the conservation of lactase gene haplotypes indicates a recent origin and high selection coefficients for LP, although it has not been possible to say whether early Neolithic European populations were lactase persistent at appreciable frequencies. We developed a stepwise strategy for obtaining reliable nuclear ancient DNA from ancient skeletons, based on (i) the selection of skeletons from archaeological sites that showed excellent biomolecular preservation, (ii) obtaining highly reproducible human mitochondrial DNA sequences, and (iii) reliable short tandem repeat (STR) genotypes from the same specimens. By applying this experimental strategy, we have obtained high-confidence LP-associated genotypes from eight Neolithic and one Mesolithic human remains, using a range of strict criteria for ancient DNA work. We did not observe the allele most commonly associated with LP in Europeans, thus providing evidence for the culture-historical hypothesis, and indicating that LP was rare in early European farmers.

                  http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/104/10/3736

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                  • #10
                    When did the intolerance for milk develop in mammals, one million years ago?
                    At what age would a baby stop drinking milk 10,000 years ago?

                    So adults started to drink milk because it was good?

                    Let me think about this . . .

                    Milk makes mammals feel great!
                    Last edited by GregKiroKH2; 11 June 2007, 06:25 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Many humans stop producing lactase between the ages of two and five.

                      Hence, there are three groups of Lactase Deficiency:

                      * Congenital Lactase Deficiency: two types of very rare genetic disorders
                      * Primary Lactase Deficiency: most common, around 75% of the world population
                      * Secondary Lactase Deficiency: caused by a disease or condition and may be only temporary

                      http://www.foodreactions.org/intoler...ose/types.html
                      A relatively recent genetic change caused some populations, including many northern Europeans, to continue producing lactase into adulthood. Lactose intolerance is an autosomal recessive trait, while lactase persistence is the dominant allele. The gene is expressed and the enzyme synthesized if at least one of the two genes are able to express properly. Only when both gene expressions are affected is lactase enzyme synthesis reduced, which in turn reduces lactose digestion.
                      . . . There is some debate on exactly where and when the mutation(s) occurred. Some argue for separate mutation events in Sweden (which has one of the lowest levels of lactose intolerance in the world) and the Arabian Peninsula around 4000 BCE. However, others argue for a single mutation event in the Middle East at about 4500 BC which then subsequently radiated. Some sources suggest a third and more recent mutation in the East African Tutsi.
                      . . .
                      Lactose intolerance can also occur due to Coeliac disease, as coeliac disease damages the villi in the small intestine that produce lactase. This lactose intolerance is temporary. Lactose intolerance associated with coeliac disease ceases after the patient has been on a gluten-free diet long enough for the villi to recover.
                      Late onset of lactose intolerance, or Secondary Lactose Intolerance sometimes occurs following exposure to intestinal parasites such as giardia. In such cases the production of lactase may be permanently disrupted.
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance
                      The condition resulting from the absence or deficiency of lactase in the mucosa cells of the gastrointestinal tract, and the inability to break down lactose in milk for absorption. Bacterial fermentation of the unabsorbed lactose leads to symptoms that range from a mild indigestion (dyspepsia) to severe diarrhea. Lactose intolerance may be an inborn error or acquired.

                      . . .

                      Lactose intolerance linked to ancestral environment
                      A new Cornell University study finds that it is primarily people whose ancestors came from places where dairy herds could be raised safely and economically, such as in Europe, who have developed the ability to digest milk.
                      On the other hand, most adults whose ancestors lived in very hot or very cold climates that couldn't support dairy herding or in places where deadly diseases of cattle were present before 1900, such as in Africa and many parts of Asia, do not have the ability to digest milk after infancy.
                      Although all mammalian infants drink their mothers' milk, humans are the only mammals that drink milk as adults. But most people -- about 60 percent and primarily those of Asian and African descent -- stop producing lactase, the enzyme required to digest milk, as they mature. People of northern European descent, however, tend to retain the ability to produce the enzyme and drink milk throughout life.
                      According to the National Digestive Diseases Information Clearinghouse, some 30 million to 50 million Americans are lactose intolerant, including up to 75 percent of African Americans and American Indians and 90 percent of Asian Americans. Common symptoms include nausea, cramps, bloating, gas and diarrhea that begin about 30 minutes to two hours after eating or drinking foods containing the milk sugar lactose. The use of lactase enzyme tablets or drops or lactose-reduced milk and similar products can help the lactose intolerant digest dairy products.
                      Study concludes that adults from Europe can drink milk because their ancestors lived where dairying flourished and passed on gene mutations that maintain lactase into adulthood. The research is an example of Darwinian medicine, a new interdisciplinary field of science that takes an evolutionary look at health, and considers why, rather than how, certain conditions or symptoms develop.

                      http://www.dentalarticles.com/dictio...tolerance.html
                      Last edited by GregKiroKH2; 11 June 2007, 07:20 PM.

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                      • #12
                        I thought about this . . . I will think a little more.

                        The gene scan method also detected selection in a gene involved in digestion of lactose, an enzyme found in milk. Prior to animal domestication, humans lost the ability to digest milk after infancy. But, as humans migrated and domesticated animals, Europeans and other populations developed a gene for tolerating lactose (and milk) throughout their lives. This finding has been well established in previous research, so arriving at similar results provided an internal validation for the accuracy of the new method.
                        http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0711134400.htm
                        Originally posted by lgmayka
                        No one "developed" lactose intolerance. Adult lactose intolerance is the normal state of the entire Class of Mammals, including humans. Lactose tolerance--or more precisely, the lactase persistence allele--occurred only within the last 9000 years, and spread widely across northern Europe only within the past 7000 years.

                        Other, independent lactase persistence alleles have arisen in some locales in Africa and the Middle East.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by GregKiroKH2
                          My earliest ideas focused on the fact that many ancient migrations occurred along water ways, east Africa, India, and Australia. Some people loved the fish, and I guess some people did not eat cow...
                          Fresh waterways are natural migration routes for all animals as all animals require fresh water. It also seems natural that early humans would use natural features as points of orientation and they naturally understood that all waters lead to other waters - stream to river or lake, river to sea.

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                          • #14
                            The more I think of it. The more I want to reexamine this lesson I heard in elementary school when I was taught the American Indians followed the white tail deer into North America. What animals do we really see in the cavemen drawings? People must have enjoyed the ancient cows. But how did the horse develop? And what about the chicken?

                            Originally posted by tomcat
                            Fresh waterways are natural migration routes for all animals as all animals require fresh water. It also seems natural that early humans would use natural features as points of orientation and they naturally understood that all waters lead to other waters - stream to river or lake, river to sea.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by GregKiroKHR1bL1
                              The more I think of it. The more I want to reexamine this lesson I heard in elementary school when I was taught the American Indians followed the white tail deer into North America. What animals do we really see in the cavemen drawings? People must have enjoyed the ancient cows. But how did the horse develop? And what about the chicken?

                              indians followed game across the north atlantic ice and thru the land in the berring sea and down the both coasts .i believe dylan said we go to school to learn the words of fools
                              and thats only the ways we think they did it now

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