Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Ydna in the Nordic countries.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • I know it doesn't, but for some reason DNATribes says I have Pakistani and Indian gen

    The most common denominator, genetically speaking, between Scandinavia and South Asia (Indian and Pakistan) is the R1a1 ydna haplogroup, spread throughout parts of Europe by the Kurgans and their descendents, and carried to South Asia by the Aryans. Yes, I know this may be an oversimplification, but there is no doubt that the two regions share a recent ancestral population that has contributed to their genetic makeup. I'm sure autosomal genetics tests have a long ways to go as far as sorting out what dna results should be assoicated with which modern populations. The results we are getting at the moment are merely the first go around for these companies, so I'm sure there will continual modifications as to how the results are reported and interpreted. FTDNA offered ABDNA tests some years back, and stopped because it the results and subsequent confusion were causing a lot of contreversy.

    Comment


    • Here's a picture of a Jat man. If you'd fatten him up, kept him out of the sun for some time and changed his clothes, he could probably pass as a Scandinavian. I think especially his rather large nose distinguishes him from most Asians.

      http://www.jatland.com/home/Physical_features

      Comment


      • Do any of you know which part of Scandinavia is considered to be southern Scandinavia? Is it Denmark and southern Sweden?

        The reason I ask is that a little while ago my cousin in one of my lineages got his Y-DNA test back and he is in haplogroup I1a. Ken Nordvedt took a look at his haplotype and said that he is in the I1a-NuN-14 clade which is common in southern Scandinavia.

        Thanks.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by J Man
          Do any of you know which part of Scandinavia is considered to be southern Scandinavia? Is it Denmark and southern Sweden?
          That's what I'd think of if someone said "southern Scandinavia". Of course there is no official sharp border for southern Scandinavia, just an imaginary and fuzzy one.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Eki
            That's what I'd think of if someone said "southern Scandinavia". Of course there is no official sharp border for southern Scandinavia, just an imaginary and fuzzy one.

            Alright thanks Eki.

            I also asked if I1a-NuN-14 would indicate Norse Viking ancestry when found in Britain most likely England. As this is where this part of my family is originally from we believe. Ken said that it could be from either Norse or Danish Vikings as this type of I1a is also found in Denmark. He also mentioned the Jutes.

            For now I guess the safest bet is to say that it most likely came to England with some group of Germanic people.

            Comment


            • Could this be a further link between Pakistan/Indian and the Baltic Sea region: There is a language called Balti in northern Pakistan:

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balti_language

              Balti is a language spoken in Baltistan, in the Northern Areas of Pakistan. Baltistan - before 1948 - was part of Ladakh province. The language is a sub-dialect of Ladakhi and an archaic dialect of the Tibetan language. Many of the consonants that are silent in most modern Tibetan dialects are pronounced in Balti
              Visigoths had a dynasty called Balti:

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balti_dynasty

              The Balti dynasty existed among the Visigoths, a Germanic people who confronted the Roman Empire in its declining years in the west. The Balti took their name from the Gothic word balþa (baltha) or bold. It thus meant the Bold ones or Bold men. Also called the Balthi dynasty, the Balthes, Baltungs, or Balthings, its members can be called Balths.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Eki
                Here's a picture of a Jat man. If you'd fatten him up, kept him out of the sun for some time and changed his clothes, he could probably pass as a Scandinavian. I think especially his rather large nose distinguishes him from most Asians.

                http://www.jatland.com/home/Physical_features

                Eki, as much as I respect your desire to connect the dots between Scandinavia and South Asians like the Jat man, I simply don't see it.
                With regards to the Jat man, even if you fattened him up, kept him out of the sun and put a viking cloak over him, he would still not look Scandinavian or Germanic to me. If you did the same to a typical Albanian, Ukrainian or Pole etc, I still would not see it. So for me, a Jat man would have less likeness to a Scandinavian.
                If anything, the Jat man would appear more Semitic or even Turkic to me, if you were to bleach him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Hando
                  If anything, the Jat man would appear more Semitic or even Turkic to me, if you were to bleach him.
                  Well, sagas and Thor Heyerdahl say Odin came from north of the Black Sea (maybe around present day Azerbaijan). Sagas also say Odin had land in what is now present day Turkey.

                  http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories...razerconn.html

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by J Man
                    Do any of you know which part of Scandinavia is considered to be southern Scandinavia? Is it Denmark and southern Sweden?

                    The reason I ask is that a little while ago my cousin in one of my lineages got his Y-DNA test back and he is in haplogroup I1a. Ken Nordvedt took a look at his haplotype and said that he is in the I1a-NuN-14 clade which is common in southern Scandinavia.

                    Thanks.
                    The I1a main concentration is around upper Oslo-fjord in southern Norway.

                    Also:

                    "On the chart, we noted that the southwest opening of Oslofjord is roughly equidistant to anywhere on the east coast of the British Isles. The crossing* took us, just as said in the sagas, five "doegr", that is five twenty-four hour days' sailing."

                    *= In a A37 foot sailboat.
                    From "Footloose goes A-Viking",
                    J.D.Keith Palmer, Prout Magazine, Prout Ltd., UK, 1986.
                    Last edited by derinos; 19 January 2008, 05:19 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by derinos
                      The I1a main concentration is around upper Oslo-fjord in southern Norway.

                      Also:

                      "On the chart, we noted that the southwest opening of Oslofjord is roughly equidistant to anywhere on the east coast of the British Isles. The crossing* took us, just as said in the sagas, five "doegr", that is five twenty-four hour days' sailing."

                      *= In a A37 foot sailboat.
                      From "Footloose goes A-Viking",
                      J.D.Keith Palmer, Prout Magazine, Prout Ltd., UK, 1986.

                      Interesting stuff derinos. Doesn't seem like it took the Norse very long to make it from Norway to the east coast of England. Then again they did have excellent ships.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Paul_Johnsen
                        A GD of 20+/- doesn't sound like a match within the last 1,000 years to me (more like 1,500 – 3,000).

                        I think I1a-Bothnia certainly is older than 1500 years from what I've seen.




                        500 BC to 0 AD was quite a "good" archaeological periode around where I live.
                        This site says there was a "gap" between the Bronze and Iron Ages also in Norway:

                        http://www.geocities.com/fairauthor/Norway2.html

                        The Iron Age:
                        The Bronze Age came to the abrupt end in Norway and elsewhere in northern Europe. The reason is yet known [at least at the time this book was written]. One theory is the change in climate, more humidity, rain and snow causing depopulation of agricultural areas. Iron did not fill the void. No votive offerings, no hoards or huge burial mounds. Rock art practically ended.

                        Comment


                        • Looks like the Scythians extended from India almost to the Baltic Sea:



                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians

                          They had a God named Agni:
                          Foremost in the Scythian pantheon stood Tabiti, who was later replaced by Atar, the fire-pantheon of Iranian tribes, and Agni, the fire deity of Indo-Aryans
                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agni

                          Agni was also the name of a mythological Swedish king:

                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agne

                          Agne, Agni, Hogne or Agni Skjalfarbondi was a mythological king of Sweden, of the House of Yngling.

                          Snorri Sturluson relates that he was the son of Dag the Wise, and he was mighty and famous. He was also skilled in many ways.

                          One summer, he went to Finland with his army where he pillaged. The Finns gathered a vast host under a chief named Frosti.[1]

                          A great battle ensued which Agne won and many Finns were killed together with Frosti. Agne then subdued all of Finland with his army, and captured not only great booty but also Frosti's daughter Skjalf and her kinsman Logi.[2]

                          Comment


                          • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agne

                            Agne then subdued all of Finland with his army, and captured not only great booty but also Frosti's daughter Skjalf and her kinsman Logi.[2]
                            Interestingly the Indo-Arayan god Agni was a fire deity, and Logi is said to have ruled over fire as well:

                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fornjot

                            In the Orkneyinga saga and in Hversu Noregr byggdist ('How Norway was settled')—both found in the Flatey Book—Fornjot appears as an ancient ruler of Finland and Kvenland. He is the father of three sons named AEgir or Hler, Logi 'flame', and Kari. The Hversu account says further that Hler ruled over the seas, Logi over fire, and Kari over wind.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Eki
                              Looks like the Scythians extended from India almost to the Baltic Sea:


                              South of the Scythians seems to be an area called Parthia. Jordanes says that Parthians were Gothic deserters:

                              VI (47) This was the region where the Goths dwelt when Vesosis, king of the Egyptians, made war upon them. Their king at that time was Tanausis. In a battle at the river Phasis (whence come the birds called pheasants, which are found in abundance at the banquets of the great all over the world) Tanausis, king of the Goths, met Vesosis, king of the Egyptians, and there inflicted a severe defeat upon him, pursuing him even to Egypt. Had he not been restrained by the waters of the impassable Nile and the fortifications which Vesosis had long ago ordered to be made against the raids of the Ethiopians, he would have slain him in his own land. But finding he had no power to injure him there, he returned and conquered almost all Asia and made it subject and tributary to Sornus, king of the Medes, who was then his dear friend. At that time some of his victorious army, seeing that the subdued provinces were rich and fruitful, deserted their companies and of their own accord remained in various parts of Asia.

                              (48) From their name or race Pompeius Trogus says the stock of the Parthians had its origin. Hence even to-day in the Scythian tongue they are called Parthi, that is, Deserters.
                              And in consequence of their descent they are archers--almost alone among all the nations of Asia--and are very valiant warriors. Now in regard to the name, though I have said they were called Parthi because they were deserters, some have traced the derivation of the word otherwise, saying that they were called Parthi because they fled from their kinsmen. Now when Tanausis, king of the Goths, was dead, his people worshipped him as one of their gods.

                              Comment


                              • I was really interesting how each little civilization viewed the fire deity.

                                A lot of air deities.
                                Wow, a lot of water deities.
                                and many Earth deities.
                                However, fire and spirit deities seem to have stories too.

                                Originally posted by Eki
                                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agne



                                Interestingly the Indo-Arayan god Agni was a fire deity, and Logi is said to have ruled over fire as well:

                                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fornjot

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X