Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Ydna in the Nordic countries.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #91
    Originally posted by GregKiroKHR1bL1
    There are the few inventors
    There are a few more developers
    There are the many more discoverers
    And there are the many imitators

    When I begin to look at this era, we often are just beginning to look at individuals. Maybe, the R1bs were being pushed by the Romans???? I have never thought about this before . . .
    That era was called the Migration Period probably for a good reason:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_period

    I think that only the migrations in the south got to be recorded for history but there were some smaller migrations in Scandinavia that were forgotten.

    Comment


    • #92
      Here's a nice map of the central settlement areas in the Nordic countries in the Roman Iron Age and the Migration Period:

      http://194.165.231.32/hemma/pramqvist/hogom.html

      Comment


      • #93
        I understand the larger map better. Now, that I see it, I can focus in on the other areas easier.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by GregKiroKHR1bL1
          There are the few inventors
          There are a few more developers
          There are the many more discoverers
          And there are the many imitators

          When I begin to look at this era, we often are just beginning to look at individuals. Maybe, the R1bs were being pushed by the Romans???? I have never thought about this before . . .
          I think your theory about Roman push is very much possible.

          I copy here a link that Jodee provided us in the thread "Romans in Denmark":

          http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n3355336.shtml

          Ancient Graveyard Said Found In Denmark

          Report Says That Archaeologists Find Ancient Roman Cemetery In Denmark With About 30 Graves

          COPENHAGEN, Denmark, Oct. 10, 2007
          Answers.com

          (AP) Archaeologists have discovered a Roman cemetery from about 300 A.D. in suburban Copenhagen with about 30 graves, a newspaper reported Wednesday.

          "It is something special and rare in Denmark to have so many (ancient Roman) graves in one place," archaeologist Rune Iversen was quoted as saying by the Roskilde Dagblad newspaper.

          The graveyard's exact location in Ishoej, southwest of downtown Copenhagen, was being kept secret until the archaeologists from the nearby Kroppedal Museum have completed their work, the newspaper wrote. No one at the museum could be immediately be reached for comment.

          Archaeologists found necklaces and other personal belongings, as well as ceramics for containing food.

          "It shows that we're dealing with the wealthy segment of that population," Iversen was quoted as saying. The objects were buried with the deceased "to show that one could afford it, show one's social status."

          Excavations are due to be completed in early November, according to Roskilde Dagblad.

          Comment


          • #95
            I superimposed the Roman Iron Age/Migration Period settlement map over Paul Johnsen's haplogroup distribution maps for easier comparision:

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Eki
              I have a theory that R1b invaders from Denmark to Sweden caused a domino effect that made the Theustes (I1a) Jordanes talks about to move from Tjust in Sweden to Tavastia in Finland and later Norr to move over to the Trondheim area in Norway and his son Raum the Old to rule the Oslo region in Norway:



              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandza
              http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tjust
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tavasti...al_province%29
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kvenland
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romerike
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raum_the_Old
              I superimposed a map of Gothic tribes according to Jordanes on the haplogroup distribution maps of I1a and R1b:

              Comment


              • #97
                Here are the Y-DNA distribution maps on anthropological distribution maps from Carlton S Coon's book "The Races of Europe". However, one must remember that physical appearance is determined by autosomal DNA of which only about half comes from the father with Y-DNA and about half comes from the mother with mtDNA:

                http://www.snpa.nordish.net/racesofeurope.htm


                Last edited by Eki; 16 October 2007, 03:14 PM.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Just wanted to say thank you Eki for the great maps -

                  Jodee

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    I will second that . . .

                    Originally posted by Jodee
                    Just wanted to say thank you Eki for the great maps -

                    Jodee

                    Comment


                    • Here are some nice descriptions of the areas Norr and his descendants are said to have ruled:

                      http://en.mcfly.org/N%F3r
                      http://en.mcfly.org/Gard_Agdi
                      http://en.mcfly.org/Raum_the_Old

                      Comment


                      • Eki

                        It seems from your maps that the settlements maps in south-west Finland have the most in common with the different gene maps in Finland.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Noaide
                          Eki

                          It seems from your maps that the settlements maps in south-west Finland have the most in common with the different gene maps in Finland.
                          Yes, especially with I1a, but also R1a and R1b. Haplogroup N was also likely there, but they were probably nomadic or semi-nomadic hunter-gatherers who didn't leave traces of settlements still visible today.

                          Comment


                          • "The Penguin Historical Atlas of the Vikings" by John Haywood says:

                            Though a leader could gather wealth through peaceful means such as landownership or by controlling trade, military expeditions to win plunder and tribute were usually more effective. This created a very competitive, predatory society, where success in war was the key to power and status. It also led to the concentration of power in fewer and fewer hands and to the merging of tribes, either voluntarily to wage war or resist aggression more effectively, or because a weaker tribe had been conquered by a stronger. It was probably in this way, for example, that the Danes emerged as the dominant people of southern Scandinavia by the 6th century.
                            I think the Danes may have been rich on R1b and their impact is still seen in southern Sweden. Furthermore, I think the Danes expanding towards northeast may have caused some I1a rich tribe(s) (Theustes?) previously living there to move to western Finland.

                            Comment


                            • John Haywood writes further:

                              The Early Germanic Iron age or Migration Period (400-600) saw the proliferation of fortifications across Scandinavia, over 1500 are known. As Scandinavia suffered no invasions from outside in this period these fortifications should be seen as evidence of internal insecurity born of these intense power struggles. Many of these fortifications were probably the centres of chieftaincies and local kingdoms. There is also evidence of a tendency for settlement to move away from the coasts, a sign that piracy was rife. Though, no doubt, unreliable in detail. the early historical traditions of the Scandinavians hold that this was indeed a period of constant conflict between competing tribes. Though Scandinavia escaped invasion during the Migration Period, the Jutland tribes of the Angles and Jutes joined the Saxons in migrating to Britain in the 5th century. What prompted this migration is not known, but it is possible that they were under pressure from neighbouring peoples.

                              Comment


                              • This map compares the distribution of Iron Age fortifications (black dots) of Satakunta and Tavastia to the distribution of I1a data from the Finland DNA Project at http://www.fidna.info/map2y.php?titl...s=yIcolors.txt



                                I1a seems to stay mostly north of the fortifications.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X