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Ydna in the Nordic countries.

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  • Originally posted by Eki
    I found this interesting website of the Jat people in Pakistan and India:

    http://www.jatland.com/home/Jats

    They reside in the area where I have automomal DNA matches according to DNATribes:



    They say the Goths may have been descended from the Jats:

    http://www.jatland.com/home/Goths
    I find it interesting according to that map the land of the Jats corresponds almost precisely with the distribution of the Harappan, aka Indus-Sarasvati, aka Indus Valley civilization.

    Comment


    • What I liked was that the link suggests that Jat comes from Jeat, also spelled as Geat. My grandfather always claimed that we were descendants of Beowulf the Geat.

      Of course Odin was also mentioned a few times by my grandfather, but as we all know he came from Troy.

      John

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Johnserrat
        Oh, come on Stevo. I need a climbing buddy for Everest to visit the relatives.

        John
        Himmler sent an expedition to that area because he believed that the Aryan ancestors of the Germanic people originated there.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Johnserrat
          What I liked was that the link suggests that Jat comes from Jeat, also spelled as Geat. My grandfather always claimed that we were descendants of Beowulf the Geat.

          Of course Odin was also mentioned a few times by my grandfather, but as we all know he came from Troy.

          John
          According to legends there once was a man named Jat (Geatwa Geata Geat Gaut Geot Gauti) who was an eponymous prince of the Goths. It's said here that Jat had a grandson called Finn (the TROJAN ?):

          http://fabpedigree.com/s008/f181038.htm

          The Frisians apparently had a prince called Finn and he was mentioned in Beowulf:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnsburg_Fragment

          The fragment is only about fifty lines long; it does not mention Finn's name, or the name of either contending tribe. Fortunately, there is a passage in the epic poem Beowulf, in which Hrothgar's bard sings a lay on the aftermath of a battle called the Freswael, the "Frisian Slaughter", which is clearly the same story. The Beowulf episode is some ninety lines long. The episode is allusive, even for Beowulf, and is clearly intended for an audience that already knows the story.

          This Finnesburg Episode (lines 1068-1159 in Beowulf) describes the mourning of Hildeburh, Hnaef's sister; Hnaef's funeral pyre, on which the body of Finn's son is also burnt; and the pact between Finn and one Hengest, who is a leader among Hnaef's surviving warriors and is mentioned also in the Fragment. The conditions of this are obscure; but Hnaef's men are to stay in Finnesburgh, at least for the winter, and the Frisians are not to taunt them for following the slayer of their lord. In the end, however, Hengest is persuaded that vengeance is more important; Finn is killed, and Hildeburh is "carried off to her people".

          More than this can be guessed, but conclusions are disputable. The most puzzling question is the reference to eotenas, that can be read both as "giants" or as a third tribe, the Jutes. Some scholars read this as a kenning for "enemies"; if not, what are they doing, and which side were they on? (Some argue they were on both, thus being each others enemies as well.) Was Finn involved in the attack? Parallels can be drawn showing that revenge could be taken on him even if he was not responsible for an attack by his men. Did Finn's son fight for his father or for his uncle? Was this Hengest the same person as the fifth-century king of Kent named Hengest?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Hando
            Himmler sent an expedition to that area because he believed that the Aryan ancestors of the Germanic people originated there.
            But obviously that is completely ridiculous as much as Himmler was.
            Last edited by Hando; 30 March 2008, 04:59 AM.

            Comment


            • I put on a mapall my I1 matches from YSearch who reported an exact place of origin (town, county, etc.) and had at least 67 markers analysed:

              http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/2451/genlahmf5.jpg

              I think the distribution pattern resembles quite well the routes of Heruls shown here:

              http://www.gedevasen.dk/heruleng.html

              Comment


              • It does sort of resemble it.
                That seond link has A LOT of info. I skimmed thru most of it.
                I think it said that the Heruls, Huns, Goths, Alans, etc were all pretty much everywhere in Europe.

                Comment


                • Here's a short version of the history of Heruls:

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heruli

                  The Heruli (spelled variously in Latin and Greek) were a nomadic Germanic people, who were subjugated by the Ostrogoths, Huns, and Byzantines in the 3rd to 5th centuries. The name is related to earl (see erilaz) and was probably an honorific military title. One of the Heruli, Odoacer, deposed the last Western Roman emperor, Romulus Augustus.

                  History

                  The 6th century chronicler Jordanes reports a tradition that they had been driven out of their homeland long before by the Dani, which would have located their origins in the Danish isles or southernmost Sweden. According to Procopius, they maintained close links with their kinsmen in Thule (Scandinavia). He relates that the Heruls killed their own king during their stay in the Balkans (cf. Domalde), and that they sent an emissary to Thule requesting a new king. Their request was granted, and a new king arrived with 200 young men.

                  The Heruls are first mentioned by Roman writers in the reign of Gallienus (260-268), when they accompanied the Goths ravaging the coasts of the Black Sea and the Aegean. The mixed warbands managed to sack Byzantium in 267, but their eastern contingent was virtually annihilated in the Balkans at the Battle of Naissus (Serbia) two years later, the battle that earned Marcus Aurelius Claudius his surname "Gothicus." A western contingent of Heruli are mentioned at the mouth of the Rhine in 289.

                  By the end of the 4th century the Heruls were subjugated by the Ostrogoths. When the Ostrogothic kingdom of Ermanaric was destroyed by the Huns in about 375, the Heruls became subject to the Hunnic empire. Only after the fall of the Hunnic realm in 454, were the Heruls able to create their own kingdom in southern Slovakia at the March and Theiss rivers.

                  After this kingdom was destroyed by the Langobards, however, Herulian fortunes waned. Remaining Heruls joined the Langobards and moved to Italy, and some of them sought refuge with the Gepids. Marcellinus comes recorded that the Romans (meaning the Byzantines) who allowed them to resettle depopulated "lands and cities" in Moravia, near Singidunum (Belgrade); this was done "by order of Anastasius Caesar" sometime between June 29 and August 31, 512. After one generation, this minor federate kingdom disappeared from the historical records.

                  Records indicate, however, that the Heruli served in the armies of the Byzantine emperors for a number of years, in particular in the campaigns of Belisarius, when much of the old Roman territory, including Italy, Syria, and North Africa was recaptured. Pharus was a notable Herulian commander during this period. Several thousand Heruli served in the personal guard of Belisarius throughout the campaigns. They disappear from historical record by the mid-6th century.

                  According to Procopius, many Heruli returned to Scandinavia and settled beside the Geats (Gautoi). The places where they are assumed to have resettled have been identified with Vermland or the provinces of Blekinge and Varend, two districts where the women had equal rights of inheritance with their brothers. Some noble Swedish families in the area also claim to be descendants of the returning Heruli. It should be noted that such identifications are not widely accepted. It has also been suggested that it was returning Heruli who first colonized Iceland.[1]

                  No "Heruli" are mentioned in Anglo-Saxon, Frankish or Norse chronicles, so it is assumed they were known in the north and west by another name. Encyclopedia Britannica 1911 suggested that, since the name Heruli itself is identified by many with the Anglo-Saxon eorlas ("nobles"), Old Saxon erlos ("men"), the singular of which (erilaz) frequently occurs in the earliest Northern inscriptions, that "Heruli" may have been a title of honor.

                  From the end of the third century, Heruls are also mentioned as raiders in Gaul and Spain, where they are mentioned together with Saxons and Alamanni. These Heruls are usually regarded as Western Heruls; their settlements are assumed to have been somewhere at the lower Rhine.

                  In Italy the noble family of Eroli (Narni, Rome), on the basis of an etymology of Eroli, claim descent from one of the Heruli, after the Italian conquest by Odoacer.

                  Comment


                  • This link mentions that the Heruli had blue eyes:

                    http://freepages.history.rootsweb.an...s4/0horse2.htm

                    "Here the Erulian roams, who lives at the sea-weed filled corners at the farthest ends of the Ocean--the Erulian with blue eyes almost the same color as that of the ice-cold sea."
                    Here's a map of frequency of light-eyes in Europe:



                    I think the highest frequency areas (75%-95%) correlate quite well with my I1-matches map here:

                    Last edited by Eki; 12 June 2008, 02:57 PM.

                    Comment


                    • The I1c's are looking to be in the norse, which I think is still considered mostly Swedish, Nordvedt haplotype, but not in the ultra norse (Norwegian) or Anglo-Saxon types.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Nagelfar
                        The I1c's are looking to be in the norse, which I think is still considered mostly Swedish, Nordvedt haplotype, but not in the ultra norse (Norwegian) or Anglo-Saxon types.
                        Also not in the Bothnia type in Finland. I know 3 Bothnia types (me included) who have tested negative to P109.

                        Comment


                        • My test came back I1c P109+. On my haplogroup page, my exact 12-marker matches who are also P109+ are from Finland and Croatia. At a mismatch of 1 or 2, Germany and England show up. The number of people tested for P109 is still very small, however.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by JimH
                            My test came back I1c P109+. On my haplogroup page, my exact 12-marker matches who are also P109+ are from Finland and Croatia. At a mismatch of 1 or 2, Germany and England show up. The number of people tested for P109 is still very small, however.
                            What was your Nordtvedt haplotype? Was it Norse?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Nagelfar
                              What was your Nordtvedt haplotype? Was it Norse?
                              Yes, I1-Norse.

                              Comment


                              • Both P109+ & P109- results for I1-N type subclades

                                Originally posted by Nagelfar
                                The I1c's are looking to be in the norse, which I think is still considered mostly Swedish, Nordvedt haplotype, but not in the ultra norse (Norwegian) or Anglo-Saxon types.
                                As of june 14th, the I1 Project has received both P109+ & P109- results for I1-Norse. There is one P109+ for I1-uN1 and one P109- for NuN-14.

                                I1-uN1, I1-un2, & NuN-14 are separate offshoots from I1-N. They should not be grouped together, separately from I1-N, as "Ultra Norse". Rather they are I1-Norse subclades; just like I1-AS1, I1-AS2,...etc are subclades of I1-AS.

                                Comment

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