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Ydna in the Nordic countries.

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  • Here's a GIF-animation of the spread of settlement in Finland during the Iron Age according to archeology. The first frame is from the early Iron Age, the second from the middle Iron Age and the last from the late Iron Age:

    Last edited by Eki; 7 February 2008, 01:59 AM.

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    • Originally posted by derinos
      The I1a main concentration is around upper Oslo-fjord in southern Norway.
      I honestly think there hasn't been an in-depth enough population study to say for sure, I mean, until you Y-haploid test >50% of the males in Scandinavia, which certainly hasn't been done, it's going to be very difficult to say where I1a is most dense/prevalent.

      I personally would be very interested to know, but every map I've seen says something different. One map is darkest for I1a around Trondheim, you say upper Oslo fjord, and other maps show Gotland Sweden as having the most I1a; but this is percentage wise, the numeric superiority might even lay in north Germany.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Nagelfar
        I personally would be very interested to know, but every map I've seen says something different. One map is darkest for I1a around Trondheim, you say upper Oslo fjord, and other maps show Gotland Sweden as having the most I1a; but this is percentage wise, the numeric superiority might even lay in north Germany.
        The skolt-sami between the norwegian, finnish and russian border have I1a over 50%.

        Comment


        • I1a(N) concentration maps?

          I agree, these maps only show concentrations in the given random sample. Oslo is given for I1a(N) density. The I1a(AS) density spot, by the AS definition, would be expected in Germany.
          One day we can see the places with the greatest % of total pop. present.

          Then we can debate what social or environmental factors favored I1a (subgroups) growth in those settings!

          Comment


          • I have been communicating lately with my cousin who is in the I1a-NuN14 sub clade of I1a. He has been communicating with Ken Nordtvedt and Ken says that I1a-Nun14 is certainly part of Norse I1a but does not know when it split off from the main Norse I1a line yet.

            I am thinking that it probably split off from the original Norse type when they were both in Scandinavia. Ken does mention that it seems to be common in southern Scandinavia today.

            Comment


            • Does anyone have any idea on how long I1a has been in Finland? Did it come with Nordic settlers possibly during the Bronze age to the west of Finland or was it there earlier?

              I wonder if it is older or younger than N3 in Finland?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by J Man
                Does anyone have any idea on how long I1a has been in Finland? Did it come with Nordic settlers possibly during the Bronze age to the west of Finland or was it there earlier?

                I wonder if it is older or younger than N3 in Finland?


                Comment: Did you pick up this link? I don't know if it fully answers your question though.

                From the paper on Y-haplogroup I1a: Haplogroup I1a is suggested to have its origins in the Iberian refugium, from where it spread northward ...

                Comment


                • There was a paper published in December ('07) that claims I1a originated more northerly than before thought, they're saying close to Denmark.

                  Comment


                  • Very interesting thanks for the replies and the link guys. I was wondering about this because my paternal grandmother's father's line tested out to be N3 and the origin of this part of my family is in western Finland.

                    So I1a in Finland seems to be quite different and independant from I1a in the rest of Scandinavia. That might mean that Finnish I1a has been in Finland for a long time.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Eki
                      I found this interesting website of the Jat people in Pakistan and India:



                      They reside in the area where I have automomal DNA matches according to DNATribes:



                      They say the Goths may have been descended from the Jats:

                      http://www.jatland.com/home/Goths
                      It says here that the language Urdu spoken in Pakistan and parts of India have similarities with Norwegian:



                      So, if there are similarities in language, maybe there are also similarities in DNA.

                      Comment


                      • Maybe you, as a Scandinavian, have some R1a1 ancestors, Eki, and that is why you are getting autosomal matches in Pakistan and India.

                        Based on that satellite map you posted above, I'd say it's a safe bet you have R1b1c ancestors, as well.

                        Just a thought.

                        Comment


                        • Eki:

                          Based on DNATribes, I'm from Nepal, Tibet or Northern India. I'm I1a just like you and can trace back virtually all of my ancestors for hundreds of years to The Netherlands. I have been in touch with a few flemish people who have had similar anomalous results. I think that it is just a problem with DNATribes database, which does not have a sufficient sample of coastal northern europeans.

                          The only explanation I have been given is that my results might reflect the ancient migration from Asia up to 50,000 years ago. Perhaps we are of relatively pure cro-magnon stock.

                          John

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Johnserrat
                            Eki:

                            Based on DNATribes, I'm from Nepal, Tibet or Northern India. I'm I1a just like you and can trace back virtually all of my ancestors for hundreds of years to The Netherlands. I have been in touch with a few flemish people who have had similar anomalous results. I think that it is just a problem with DNATribes database, which does not have a sufficient sample of coastal northern europeans.

                            The only explanation I have been given is that my results might reflect the ancient migration from Asia up to 50,000 years ago. Perhaps we are of relatively pure cro-magnon stock.

                            John
                            Well, that pretty much sums up, at least in part, why I have never tossed any coin in the direction of autosomal testing.

                            There be dragons.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Johnserrat
                              Eki:

                              Based on DNATribes, I'm from Nepal, Tibet or Northern India. I'm I1a just like you and can trace back virtually all of my ancestors for hundreds of years to The Netherlands. I have been in touch with a few flemish people who have had similar anomalous results. I think that it is just a problem with DNATribes database, which does not have a sufficient sample of coastal northern europeans.
                              Thanks John for the information. I didn't know the flemish had similar results. I had some Belgian flemish among my DNA-tribes matches.


                              Originally posted by Johnserrat

                              The only explanation I have been given is that my results might reflect the ancient migration from Asia up to 50,000 years ago. Perhaps we are of relatively pure cro-magnon stock.

                              John
                              According to Niskanen, of all modern people the bones of the Cro-Magnon resemble the most of the ones of modern Finns and Swedes:



                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Stevo
                                Well, that pretty much sums up, at least in part, why I have never tossed any coin in the direction of autosomal testing.

                                There be dragons.
                                Oh, come on Stevo. I need a climbing buddy for Everest to visit the relatives.

                                John

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