Haplogroup L! & Caucasian?

[lwancha]

Recently tested Genographic Project My MtDna tested HAPLOGROUP L1 ON the mito search my user id is uhn98---- I had 12 matches. from these matches my matches are African American My maternal lineage is from Cornwall England. My hvr2 showed no mutations. On my hvr1 I had an additional number my matches did not. {* 289G} Am I African American or Caucasian. I was unable to get an answer from genographic , project If anyone can be of assistance

[vraatyah]

Recently tested Genographic Project My MtDna tested HAPLOGROUP L1 ON the mito search my user id is uhn98---- I had 12 matches. from these matches my matches are African American My maternal lineage is from Cornwall England. My hvr2 showed no mutations. On my hvr1 I had an additional number my matches did not. {* 289G} Am I African American or Caucasian. I was unable to get an answer from genographic , project If anyone can be of assistance

First of all, list all your mutations. As to the hvs2, the explanation is very clear - you have not ordered this test. Being in L1 and having HVS2 the same as CRS is not possible at all.

[cacio]

Lwancha:

I gave a quick look and the HVR seems definitely L1, but I will have to doublecheck with a couple of articles.
L1 is of African origin. It is present though in Northern Africa, and from there, in low frequencies, in Spain, Southern Italy, and Spain. So it may also be the case that somebody came from Southern Europe to England, may be even in a distant past. The other possibility of course is a mix-up of your results.

The dataset of the book Blood of the Isles (on the UK) reports 1 L1b out of several thousand observations (in Northumbria), though with a couple of differences from you.

cacio

[vraatyah]

The dataset of the book Blood of the Isles (on the UK) reports 1 L1b

and 2-3 sequences in the published literature, about 0.5% of the population.

[lwancha]

L1 and Caucasian

First of all, list all your mutations. As to the hvs2, the explanation is very clear - you have not ordered this test. Being in L1 and having HVS2 the same as CRS is not possible at all.

Sorry, you can really tell I'm new at this but trying to learn. If you can check My FTDNA kit is N37704 and my password is L7157 I really need your expertise. Linda

[cacio]

Linda:

we cannot really enter your account. You must upload your results from your ftdna account into mitosearch. I believe you can do so by logging into your ftdna account and clicking the "mitosearch" icon on the top, and then create new user. But I've done it a long time ago, so I don't really remember.

Alternatively, and more easily, just copy and paste your HVR1 results from your page to this forum.

cacio

[deanc]

Linda's mitosearch access #'s are uhn98 password 17157 . I am her full male sibling. my recent DNA tribes autosomal test results do not reveal sub saharan African results, my highest world region score was india 7.23, our paper genealogy is solid anglo-celtic, any insight anyone can offer will be greatly appreciated. thanks; deanc

[cacio]

deanc:

yes, the sequence posted on mitosearch is clearly L1b.

A scientific article about African mtdna:

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/journal/issues/v71n5/024272/024272.html?erFrom=756622872461620773Guest

says the following about L1b:

L1b is concentrated in West Africa, with some overflow into Central and North Africa (particularly geographically adjacent areas, connected by the West African coastal pathway) but little in East, southeastern, or southern Africa. It is also common in African Americans (∼27% of all L1b-types in the database), in agreement with the known importance of the West African coast to the Atlantic slave trade.

So as mentioned before, I can see two scenarios;
1) from West Africa, an L1b moved north into Northern Africa. Approximately 25% of NW Africa belongs to African L haplogroups, including L1b. From there it moved into southern Europe. Another paper

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1046/j.1469-1809.2003.00039.x

documents that 3% of Iberian and 2.5% of Central and Southern Italian mtdna belongs to haplogroup L (again, including L1b). The paper suggests that this may have happened in antiquity (with the Romans and before) as well as with the Arab domination. From southern Europe, then, over time, your haplogroup moved north into the rest of Europe, where instead it is extremely rare.
2) a mixup in the test. To verify this, one can do a test with another company. For instance, argusbio.com offers HVR1 and 2 for $75, if I'm not wrong.

As for DNA tribes, I don't know what they test exactly, but I don't think they test the mtdna. Remember that the mtdna follows your purely female lineage only. It doesn't tell you anything about the other ancestors. So if this L1b woman moved to NW africa and Europe in antiquity (ie dozens, if not hundreds, of generations ago), then there's probably no other trace left of her other than the mtdna. (But I don't really know much about DNA tribes, other than at this time there's still a certain randomness in the results).

cacio

[kaybee930]

L & Causcasian-talk to FTDNA

Ask FTDNA to review the results. They generally do so when there is any question.

[Pleroma]

If you are absolutely certain about your maternal line leading to straight to England, (because in United States "passing" was not an uncommon occurence), it's possible that this African heritage may be the result of the English involvement in the slave trade:

http://www.britannia.com/history/naremphist6.html

or

it could be related the the anti-slavery movement in the later 1700's and 1800's when some Africans from America did find asylum in Britian.

Your autosomal test would not reveal the African if your full-blooded ancestor it was too far back in time.

[GregKiroKH2]

In the American Old West, it was founded that only a few generations was needed to change from one race to another. The same type of stories can be founded in Europe. People generally like their children . . .

The historical and literary traditions of Wales reflect similar beliefs. According to Gwyn Jones (perhaps the world's leading authority on the subject), to the Welsh chroniclers, "The Danes coming in by way of England and the Norwegians by way of Ireland were pretty well all black: Black Gentiles, Black Norsemen, Black Host."
http://www.nok-benin.co.uk/prev-articles/royal_8.htm

[cacio]

lwancha:

Kaiser pointed out to a recent article about an African Y chromosomal lineage in the UK.

http://www.ftdna.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3062&page=1&pp=10

In a way, it is a case similar to yours, on the male side. Although extremely rare, movements from Africa existed also in antiquity, and we're probably talking about millennia ago.

cacio

[rainbow]

I thought of starting a new thread asking if anyone else took the dnatribes test and got African matches. I did a search and found 2 threads, one about ydna & one about mtdna from Africa found in white people of English descent.

Since this one thread is about mtdna, I thought I'd mention, in case you hadn't already read it, a book by Bryan Sykes called The Seven Daughters Of Eve. In it he mentions a case of one woman in England whose mtdna was African. If I recall correctly, he mentioned it could have been from when the Romans occupied Britain. There were Africans among the 'Romans' and were considered Roman.

My mtdna is European, H, but dnatribes gave me a bunch of African matches.

[josh w.]

Keep in mind that the Mtdna line has nothing to do with physical appearance. To the extent that they have been identified the genes affecting physical appearance are on the autosomes, but I don't know if any of the available autosomal tests tap these particular genes. Remember also that the Mtdna line only covers one part of possibly hundreds of thousands of one's genetic lines.

[rainbow]

Quote:
The historical and literary traditions of Wales reflect similar beliefs. According to Gwyn Jones (perhaps the world's leading authority on the subject), to the Welsh chroniclers, "The Danes coming in by way of England and the Norwegians by way of Ireland were pretty well all black: Black Gentiles, Black Norsemen, Black Host."

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/blackhistory/early_times/moors.htm

According to the historians Fryer, Edwards and Walvin, in the 9th century Viking fleets raided North Africa and Spain, captured Black people, and took them to Britain and Ireland.