Any E3b's Around Connected to Vlachs?

[Andrew M]

Native to the Balkans is a group of around 10,000,000 that claims to be descended from the Romans. Others call them Vlachs, although they use "Romani, Rumani or Aromani" (which I can see could lead to confusion with Gypsies who call themselves Romani and Roma).

Some theorize that they are Romanized Thracians. Nevertheless, there seems to be a strong connection with Vlachs and E3b1. Googling "Vlach" give quite a wide range of information, but for me a piece of the ancestral match puzzle came into place when my only 12/12 contact mentioned that his father's ancestry was Vlach from the north-eastern Carpatians. I think it may be a link to the many Eastern European and Latin European close matches that appear on my REO.

Here's a link from Encyclopdia Britannica: http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9075608/Vlach

Just one last note from what I read: the majority of the residents in Transylvania are Vlachs.

[lgmayka]

I'm beginning to wonder whether I myself am descended from Vlachs. I am an I1b of southeastern Polish ancestry, and I have read that Vlachs settled in the Carpathians as far west as that (and perhaps even farther, into what is now the Czech Republic). And of course, Romania is a hotbed of I1b.

[Andrew M]

Could be. I read somewhere in a thread on this forum (last spring I believe) that I's and E3b's were fellow-travellers in the Balkan area. My "match" comes from Poland/Ukraine (with a Polish name) but is ethnically Vlach. "Vlach" means "stranger" and is etimologically (sp?) related to "Wales" and "Wallach."

[Rossi]

Could be. I read somewhere in a thread on this forum (last spring I believe) that I's and E3b's were fellow-travellers in the Balkan area. My "match" comes from Poland/Ukraine (with a Polish name) but is ethnically Vlach. "Vlach" means "stranger" and is etimologically (sp?) related to "Wales" and "Wallach."

I have also read that I's and E3b's followed similar migration paths.

[lgmayka]

"Vlach" means "stranger" and is etimologically (sp?) related to "Wales" and "Wallach."

'Vlach' was reportedly used as the Slavic term for anyone who spoke a Romance language, including both Romanian and Italian. Thus, the modern Polish word for an Italian is 'Wloch'. (The 'w' is pronounced like an English 'v'.)

[lgmayka]

This paper

http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/22/10/1964.pdf

gives the following haplogroup percentages for Romanians (drawing on other papers):

R1b 18.0
R1a 20.0
I1b 17.7
E3b1 21.4

[Andrew M]

Here's a list of Vlachs who have made names for themselves on the world stage: http://experts.about.com/e/l/li/List_of_Vlachs.htm

[Andrew M]

Things got narrowed down a little further. My 12/12 match mentioned paternal links to an ethnic group called the Lemko. From what I quickly researched, the Lemko are pastoral farmers related to the Vlachs. They got moved around through Poland and the Ukraine in the last century or two. Andy Warhol is a famous member of this unique group.

[lgmayka]

My 12/12 match mentioned paternal links to an ethnic group called the Lemko. From what I quickly researched, the Lemko are pastoral farmers related to the Vlachs. They got moved around through Poland and the Ukraine in the last century or two.

Anyone of Lemko ancestry is welcome to join the Polish Project, both because the Lemko homeland is in modern southeastern Poland and because historically, the Lemko were part of the Renaissance Polish-Lithuanian Republic.

http://www.ftdna.com/public/polish

Family Tree DNA also has a very focused Carpatho-Rusyn Project. The Lemko, as well as the Bojko and Hutsul, are Carpatho-Rusyns:

http://www.ftdna.com/public/carpatho-rusyn

A customer of Lemko ancestry is welcome to join both projects.

Here is a web site on the Lemko:

http://lemko.org/

[Andrew M]

I'll pass on the information.

I also noticed that Galicia (sometimes part of Austria) is a "homeland" for Carpathian Rusyns. There's a place in Spain also known as Galicia. It's funny that my RAO's have Galicia listed and I don't know which of them it refers to.

My closest matches are still split between folks from the Ukraine, Russia, Poland, Lithuania and the Portugal, Spain and France bunch. Hopefully the 25 marker test due on Nov. 8 will shed more light.

[lgmayka]

I also noticed that Galicia (sometimes part of Austria) is a "homeland" for Carpathian Rusyns. There's a place in Spain also known as Galicia. It's funny that my RAO's have Galicia listed and I don't know which of them it refers to.

My understanding is that 'Galicia' in the RAOs always refers to southern Poland and western Ukraine, not Spain. The reason is simple: Spanish Galicia has been part of Spain for centuries, and so almost anyone with ancestry from that area would simply tell outsiders that he had Spanish ancestry.

Southern Poland and western Ukraine, on the other hand, were occupied by the Austrian Empire throughout the 19th and early 20th century, when so much emigration to the United States and other 'new lands' took place. Such emigrants therefore had to travel on an Austrian passport, and declare themselves as Austrian citizens, but certainly did not consider themselves ethnically Austrian. On the other hand, not all such immigrants had clear-cut emotional ties to the former Polish-Lithuanian Republic or to its 20th-century successor states. And so, even today, when asked for their 'country of origin' by their children or grandchildren, some such immigrants may say 'Galicia' as a kind of compromise, a way to avoid heavy debate.

[Andrew M]

I can see why they would say Galicia. Long explanations of "who took over what and when" are not the stuff of winning conversations for the average person. Doing burial services in the late 80's out in western Canada for 90 and a few 100-year-olds really helped aquaint me with all sorts of migratory and historical twists and turns of those who ostensibly were Ukranians.

After some digging I found out that the Lenko history is that of Vlachs (groups of Shepherds originating in the Balkans) in the 14/15th Century getting land grants from the Polish king to settle in the area of what is now the Poland/Ukraine. Their culture amalgamated with their Ukranian neighbours becoming linguistically a dialect of Ukranian. After several forced immigrations (especially hard was one just after World War 2) the Lemko lost much of their homelands.