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  • American Indian admixture

    Originally posted by Yaffa
    A lot of children were taken from their tribes and put in white boarding schools to introduce Indian children into white culture.The Carlisle Industrial School in Carlisle PA was one of these schools. It is possible that one of your acestors was placed there. One friend I grew up with, his grandmother was Cherokee. She was in the Carlisle school. They put soap in her mouth if she spoke her Indian langguage. When she left the school she moved to NY and never went back to her tribe.She was terrified of telling anyone she was Indian. I know another Cherokee that left the school and settled in NJ. I know a Sioux that settled in CT and one that stayed in PA.
    http://home.epix.net/~landis/histry.html

    Link to the Carlisle Indian Industrial School History

    Comment


    • Originally posted by kawashkar
      Thanks,

      Where I can find more detailed information about this?

      I believe hollywood is in part guilty of making people believe worldwide that all the Indians of the U.S. were nomads of the plains.

      I am interested in what happened to the natives that addopted to the "the white man's ways", particularly about theirs demography. I have the suspiction that many (if not most) of the Natives of the East coast of United States assimilated to the mainstream in a rather boring manner that history didn't pay much attention to it.

      There is the stereotype that admixture between Europeans and Indians only happened in Hispanic America, but genetic studies show that also happened in mass in Brazil, the Caribbean and Canada. I wonder why the United States would be the exception. Particularly when there are lot of White Americans that carry Amerindian markers.

      I would like to know more about the topic, and thanks for the info.

      Regards,

      Omar Vega,
      Chilean
      Omar,

      You can email me directly. [email protected] .I have been researching Wilkes and Ashe Counties in North Carolina with a few other people. There is evidence that there were a lot more Indians there than recorded. DNA tests are comming up Indian but almost all are listed as White on census. There is white in my family but most are not. There is evidence of Cherokee, Saponi and Catawba in that area. I know people you can speak to

      Jodi

      Comment


      • DNA will tell eventually

        As more and more people become interested in their true pedigree, over many generations, then the true nature of Native American and 'white" integration into mainstream society will become more clear. And of course parallel "Black"and Native American mixing also occurred.

        Up here in the Pacific Northwest, there is all manner of degrees of "mixed blood" in the local population. It is looked on as normal.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by PDHOTLEN
          As more and more people become interested in their true pedigree, over many generations, then the true nature of Native American and 'white" integration into mainstream society will become more clear. And of course parallel "Black"and Native American mixing also occurred.

          Up here in the Pacific Northwest, there is all manner of degrees of "mixed blood" in the local population. It is looked on as normal.
          I've read that John Wayne, who played a cowboy in the movies, had some Native American ancestry. And so does Cameron Diaz, not on her fathers side, but on her mothers mostly-British side. And Carol Burnett.

          If I'm wrong please let me know.

          And JFK had said in a tv interview (I saw the rerun. Probably from when he was a Senator.) that he was an honorary Indian.
          rainbow
          FTDNA Customer
          Last edited by rainbow; 26 July 2007, 12:55 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Yaffa
            http://home.epix.net/~landis/histry.html

            Link to the Carlisle Indian Industrial School History

            I had found out about this school after I emailed the website for the town of Hamilton, New Jersey, asking why their town history had no mention on the Sioux living there. I received several replies. They didn't know what I was talking about. The last email came from their librarian who said that there where many Indians that came to live and work there, and to other communities in New Jersey, who came from the Carlisle Reservation school in Pennsylvania. I googled Carlisle reservation, and found that it was a school.

            http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/siouxcensus/

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlisl...ustrial_School

            http://members.aol.com/tawodi/carlisle/page3.htm

            With my 17% NA coming from my Dutch New Jersey (Hunterdon & Somerset Counties) grandparent, my Native American could be from any tribe. The Carlisle school even had kids from Alaska.
            The Dutch traded with the Mohicans in NY and the Lenape in NJ. I thought my NA DNA most likely came from those tribes. But because Indians were forced to move west in the early 1800s I didn't see how I could possibly have such a high percentage, the high percentage must be afterwards/more recent. When I found out about the Sioux living in the next county in 1910 I thought it must be from someone in that tribe. There were over 60 Sioux in Hamilton, NJ, employed by the Cody's Wild west Show. But since finding out about the Carlisle school, and reading the tribe listings, and most of the children were given fully English names, I realize I could be descended from any tribe. Then there is my Dutch Guyana/Suriname theory, and my Alaskan Gold Rush theory. Maybe my a NJ ancestor went to Alaska and married an Athabaskan? Or........?
            Maybe my paternal grandmother was adopted? Or her mom was adopted? Or maybe there was a 'non paternal event'? I wish I had pictures of my New Jersey great-grandparents.
            I met only one of my grandmothers siblings, a brother. He was 6'7" tall, very fair. Looked like he came straight out of Norway. My grandmother is petite, with dark brown hair. She always wore sunglasses around me, so I never saw her eyes, but in a few pictures I've received, she has dark eyes. I know siblings can look very different from each other, but still....
            Maybe they were just half-siblings, but didn't know it?
            rainbow
            FTDNA Customer
            Last edited by rainbow; 26 July 2007, 01:52 PM.

            Comment


            • Is there a 'height' gene?
              There are tall people on my fathers' mothers side and on my mothers' fathers' side. 6'7" there also, from the Scottish side.
              I'm 4'11". Why did I come out so short? One great-great grandmother was 4'11" also, from North Carolina. My maternal grandmothers grandmother. The tiny woman shot at Yankees during the Civil War, with a rifle about as big as her, or so I was told.
              But that is off-topic for this thread. Sorry.
              rainbow
              FTDNA Customer
              Last edited by rainbow; 26 July 2007, 02:18 PM.

              Comment


              • Or maybe there was a 'non paternal event'? I wish I had pictures of my New Jersey great-grandparents.
                I met only one of my grandmothers siblings, a brother. He was 6'7" tall, very fair. Looked like he came straight out of Norway. My grandmother is petite, with dark brown hair. She always wore sunglasses around me, so I never saw her eyes, but in a few pictures I've received, she has dark eyes. I know siblings can look very different from each other, but still....
                Maybe they were just half-siblings, but didn't know it?
                On the flip side, maybe he looked straight out of Norway because he was from a 'non paternal event'? Lots of Swedes settled in NJ too.
                New Jersey was basically Dutch in the Northern half, Swedish in the Southern half.

                Since I have no photos of the NJ great-grandparents I don't know if they were dark or fair, or one of each, so I can't compare/judge their offspring.

                One thing is a fact. I have 17% Native American " in the genome".
                rainbow
                FTDNA Customer
                Last edited by rainbow; 26 July 2007, 02:35 PM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by rainbow
                  Is there a 'height' gene?

                  I'm 4'11". Why did I come out so short? One great-great grandmother was 4'11" also, from North Carolina. My maternal grandmothers grandmother. The tiny woman shot at Yankees during the Civil War, with a rifle about as big as her, or so I was told.
                  But that is off-topic for this thread. Sorry.
                  That is what my maternal grandmother told me about her grandmother. Both of her grandmothers were named Sarah. I'm pretty sure she was talking about her paternal grandmother.

                  Comment


                  • American Indian admixture

                    Yes it could be any tribe. The school had many children from different tribes. As for your ancestor looking anglo. You can't go by looks. My MT-DNA goes straight to my 2nd GGrandmother who came from the Rio Grande. Pick the darkest Indian with that red color comming through her skin and that is my 2nd GGrandmother. Her first husband was white ( I descend from her 2nd not white husband ). Her son came out a snowball. Blond and blue eyed and he stayed that way. All her children from her 2nd husband were as dark as she was. My Great Grandmother as dark as her mother had my Grandmother who again came out a snowball. To look at my Grandmother you would never think she was Indian. My mother goes back to being dark. We believe her father was Indian. We dont know who he was

                    As for an adoption in your family, It is always possible. I am a 2nd generation adoptee. I was adopted and so was my birth mother.

                    As for your height, yes there is a height gene but like me you got the short gene. Everyone on my mother's side is very tall even the women accept for my one aunt. On my fathers side most are short but I have one uncle over 7'.

                    I guess we both got the short end of the stick!

                    Jodi

                    Mt-DNA Haplogroup B / mitosearch XKBS6
                    Yaffa
                    Registered User
                    Last edited by Yaffa; 26 July 2007, 06:37 PM.

                    Comment


                    • American Indian admixture

                      Originally posted by rainbow
                      I've read that John Wayne, who played a cowboy in the movies, had some Native American ancestry. And so does Cameron Diaz, not on her fathers side, but on her mothers mostly-British side. And Carol Burnett.

                      If I'm wrong please let me know.

                      And JFK had said in a tv interview (I saw the rerun. Probably from when he was a Senator.) that he was an honorary Indian.
                      So is Heather Locklear. She is Lumbee. Afro/Indian/white and from what I read she is enrolled with the tribe. So again you cant go by looks

                      Comment


                      • Fantasy scenario (possible?)

                        The only other person on Mitosearch with my exact U5 HVR1 (16270 & 16519) is a person with a claimed Tuscarora (Native American) maternal ancestor. Although the person claims English desent otherwise (see GMNSC on Mitosearch), that may not be correct if my fantasy scenario is true.

                        The Tuscaroras were driven out of their North Carolina lands by early settlers. The tribe then migrated north to join their Iroquois brothers. This protracted movement started about 1713 or so, and lasted a couple of decades (see old Nat Geo map of Atlantic Gateway). The Tuscrora trail followed a mountain ridgeline through Pennsylvania, including along the northern border of Berks County, then the outer limit of colonial settlement. Settlers in Berks County were mostly Germans, at that stage.

                        To make a long story short, a female relative of my maternal ancestor, Catherine (unknown last name)(b.1749) was captured by vengeful Tuscaroras as they passed through the area. Maybe she was orphaned by the raid, which might be why I can't find her family tree info?

                        Now that I look at this scenario, the dates don't match up all that well. But there may be something to it.

                        U5b2 (G986T)
                        PDHOTLEN
                        FTDNA Customer
                        Last edited by PDHOTLEN; 27 July 2007, 05:45 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by PDHOTLEN
                          The only other person on Mitosearch with my exact U5 HVR1 (16270 & 16519) is a person with a claimed Tuscarora (Native American) maternal ancestor. Although the person claims English desent otherwise (see GMNSC on Mitosearch), that may not be correct if my fantasy scenario is true.

                          The Tuscaroras were driven out of their North Carolina lands by early settlers. The tribe then migrated north to join their Iroquois brothers. This protracted movement started about 1713 or so, and lasted a couple of decades (see old Nat Geo map of Atlantic Gateway). The Tuscrora trail followed a mountain ridgeline through Pennsylvania, including along the northern border of Berks County, then the outer limit of colonial settlement. Settlers in Berks County were mostly Germans, at that stage.

                          To make a long story short, a female relative of my maternal ancestor, Catherine (unknown last name)(b.1749) was captured by vengeful Tuscaroras as they passed through the area. Maybe she was orphaned by the raid, which might be why I can't find her family tree info?

                          Now that I look at this scenario, the dates don't match up all that well. But there may be something to it.

                          U5b2 (G986T)
                          Some of the Tuscarora stayed in NC http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncbertie/tuscarra.htm

                          Comment


                          • ?? on Dna Tribes/Native American Panel Results

                            Hi
                            Just got my Native American Panel with
                            highest number equador(inca).17
                            This was the larger number after the green graph line.

                            My World match was fourth down mestizo 10.0

                            What amount of Native American should I estimate
                            from this result?

                            Thanks so much for any input,

                            Val

                            Comment


                            • You can't make a percentage estimate from Tribes numbers because all Tribes match scores are based on your entire allelic profile. Tribes is a profile-matching test not an admixture mapping test. Ancestry by DNA is an admixture mapping test.

                              The world match scores you gave in another thread were (appx) 130, 100, 50 and 10 for Mestizo. The only thing one can say about those is that you are 130x more likely to be A, 100x more likely to be B, 50x more likely to be C than to be a generic human. Your 10x likelihood of being Mestizo, although at the low end, is still significant compared to a generic human score of 1. You might be demonstrably, genealogically 100% of category A but your profile could still resemble to a marked degree that of categories B, C and D. Similarly, you might be genealogically 100% of category C but have an allelic profile that looks even more like categories A and B.

                              Tribes offers some sample .pdf's illustrating match scores ranges for persons of particular admixtures and a survey of world-wide allelic profiles. Whatever Tribes is measuring when they score for Mestizo, Tribes Mestizo turns-up in some surprising places, among populations with no known or no significant Native American admixture.
                              tomcat
                              FTDNA Customer
                              Last edited by tomcat; 27 July 2007, 11:10 PM.

                              Comment


                              • You can always find the percentage of something if you have all of the numbers. The meaning of the ratios might have different interpretations.

                                Sample: 1, 2, 3, 4

                                Total = 10

                                Ratios: 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.4

                                Ratios multiple by 100% are called percentages.

                                Percentages: 10%, 20%, 30%, 40%

                                The ratios can mean anything . . . for example; they could be mass fractions or the mole fractions or mass per mole or amu per particle. Anyone can make a percentage out of anything.

                                Percentages often eliminate constants, and might not represent the sample fully. The good part of percentages is that they tell someone what part of the whole something represents.

                                Comment

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