Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

American Indian admixture in White Americans

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by kawashkar
    Well, I guess you have a problem of concept. If you tested mtDNA or if you are male and tested Y-Chromosomes, the heritage is not "diluted". You just can't calculate that if you "have" 17% of Native American it means some of your parents was 34% native American. It just does not work that way. If you have a single Amerindian female in the direct female line, and is one between 1023 European ancestors, your mtDNA will mark Native American.

    Anyways, if you come from Easter Europe, chances are your "Native" DNA is Mongolian or Turk. No kidding. To figure out, check for your specific tests and start to study the topic, which is quite complex.

    Omar Vega
    My mtdna is H. My direct female line is English. I guess you never heard of AncestryByDna, which is what I was talking about. They do a 'percentages' test. www.ancestrybydna.com They calculate what you inherit from BOTH parents. For me to have 17% Native American, and my mom gets a zero, that means my father would be about 34%. DNATRIBES is another company. I then tested with them, and it contradicts the ABD result.
    rainbow
    FTDNA Customer
    Last edited by rainbow; 10 April 2007, 10:46 PM.

    Comment


    • Why can some friendly people be friends while some angry people keep enemies?

      I was listening to some of the older uncles and friends and father talking about the old days one time. And they said "it is who knows you. . .” Some times in the olden days, people did not talk about such things. For example, do you remember the cartoon, "What a Mess?" If it was not for the announcer, then no one would know that he was "Prince Amir of Kinjan." Personally, I thought people were friendly in the south. I was not a perfect boy when I was there, and I had no idea why the people at the Marshall Tucker concert were different than the people at the James Brown concert. As a matter of fact, I acted as if I was at home in the community not really understanding my action, "Back to the Future." During the American expansion to the west, different tribes could be strangers, and it was a rare event for boy and girl of different backgrounds to meet to fall in love like in the cartoon "The Good, and the Bad, and the Huckleberry." (Just to add a little humor). So, I am not really surprise than some people got married while other people did not in the olden days. Why are there road blocks with some sides of the family while other sides have few? I do not know why. And what about giant gaps in lineages . . .? Maybe, people want to remember the good things about the family, and the other things you learn on your own, maybe. It is good to have an American Indian background in our family.

      By the way, "I love Lucy was a big hit in the 1950s." Maybe people should go to church and confess a little to the congregation . . . Sometimes, fear and trust are big motivators.

      Comment


      • I have no known American Indian ancestry. My 13 markers from dnatribes, that is 26 alleles, put thru omnipop by msc_44, show 9 alleles to be American Indian. plus one from Guam (Chamorros), one from China, and one from Japan.

        D8S1179 13 Athabaskan (Alaskan)
        D21S11 30 Apache
        D21S11 31.2 Puna (northwest argentina)
        CSFIPO 12 RCMP Salishan (coastal B.C.)
        D3S1358 15 Navajo
        D16S539 11 Inupiat (Alaska)
        vWA 16 Apache
        TPOX 11 Yupik (Alaska)
        D18S51 15 Yupik (Alaska)
        rainbow
        FTDNA Customer
        Last edited by rainbow; 26 April 2007, 09:57 PM.

        Comment


        • I emailed dnatribes about my omnipop results done with my markers from dnatribes. Here is a quote from dnatribes responding email:

          Thank you for contacting us regarding your results. I have reviewed all files and verified that the reports delivered to you by email include analysis for your own DNA sample labeled with your name and unique tracking number.

          DNA Tribes analysis differs substantially from freely available programs such as OmniPop, and we cannot warrant or interpret OmniPop results. Our own algorithms were developed for DNA Tribes by Eduardas Valaitis (Ph.D. in Statistics, Yale University). We are not familiar with the algorithms which delivered your percentages below, but they are not consistent with results identified with the DNA Tribes algorithms.

          DNA Tribes results identify a primarily Northwest European affiliation for your DNA profile, consistent with your known ancestry primarily from the British Isles.

          Comment


          • I just read about this today when looking for Native American ancestry in English people. I'm an Anglo-American with no known Native American ancestry, yet I got a 17% Native American result in my test from DNAPrint/AncestryByDna. Now I wonder if some of my English ancestors that came here where themselves descendants of Indians living in Britain.

            This is a link to one of the news articles about Native American mitochondrial dna found in British women who had no known Indian ancestry. And the article says that American Indians had been brought over to England since the 1500s.

            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/connected...8/ecrace08.xml
            rainbow
            FTDNA Customer
            Last edited by rainbow; 20 May 2007, 05:45 PM.

            Comment


            • Native Am mtDNA in England

              The only exact HVR1 match to me that I've so far found is one from England. At the bottom of the Mitosearch page is a statement that seems to say this line goes back to the Tuscarora. I guess that means that maternal ancestor was rescued and brought to England, since U5 is strictly European.

              U5b2: 16270 & 16519.

              Comment


              • Book: it's a good read

                I'm just completing my (first) reading of a history book I ordered from a discount catalog titled:

                WHITE SAVAGE, by Fintan O'Toole, 2005.

                It takes place before, during and after the French & Indian War. It is thoroughly researched and is very eye-opening. The geographical setting centers in the Mohawk Valley, but ranges far and wide.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by kawashkar
                  Hi,

                  I am looking for studies, statistics, census, historical cites, and particularly genetic studies about the degree of American Indian admixture in white americans. I am interested in white American-Native admixture only, because that was the dominant group that colonized the country, and I would like to find out how many natives managed to insert into that society sucessfully.

                  I am trying to figure it out how many Natives escaped genocide or expulsion to the west by assimilating and mixing with the pioneer population of the ealy colonies of the United States.

                  Why? Because I am trying to find out if there was mass admixture in the British colonies like it happened anywhere else in the Americas, Canada included. And that is needed to clarify if there was an actual genocide in East North America or there was something else going on there.

                  I have seen certain studies that declare that 6% of the White American population do have Native Ancestry, and I believe the actually figure somewhere between 6 and 15% of the genetical makeup, but I need more solid studies. But I am certain that Pocahontas children were not the only ones that assimilated to the white settler society at all.

                  Any help, will be appreciated. Historical and genetical refferences are welcomed, and personal experiences, particularly from the East coast, are welcome too.

                  Thanks,

                  Omar Vega,
                  Chilean
                  I'm from the East Coast. I think you are right that there was a lot of assimilation. I'm a white American. My family is from the East Coast. My AncestryByDna says I'm 17% Native American.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by GregKiroKH2
                    Why can some friendly people be friends while some angry people keep enemies?

                    I was listening to some of the older uncles and friends and father talking about the old days one time. And they said "it is who knows you. . .” Some times in the olden days, people did not talk about such things. For example, do you remember the cartoon, "What a Mess?" If it was not for the announcer, then no one would know that he was "Prince Amir of Kinjan." Personally, I thought people were friendly in the south. I was not a perfect boy when I was there, and I had no idea why the people at the Marshall Tucker concert were different than the people at the James Brown concert. As a matter of fact, I acted as if I was at home in the community not really understanding my action, "Back to the Future." During the American expansion to the west, different tribes could be strangers, and it was a rare event for boy and girl of different backgrounds to meet to fall in love like in the cartoon "The Good, and the Bad, and the Huckleberry." (Just to add a little humor). So, I am not really surprise than some people got married while other people did not in the olden days. Why are there road blocks with some sides of the family while other sides have few? I do not know why. And what about giant gaps in lineages . . .? Maybe, people want to remember the good things about the family, and the other things you learn on your own, maybe. It is good to have an American Indian background in our family.

                    By the way, "I love Lucy was a big hit in the 1950s." Maybe people should go to church and confess a little to the congregation . . . Sometimes, fear and trust are big motivators.
                    I never understood your post before. I have just re-read it a couple times. I'm used to reading very quickly, as if everyone speaks quickly. Reading this as if it was spoken very, very slowly, with a lot of pauses, I now get what you were saying. Thank you.

                    Comment


                    • Thank you Rainbow, I saw your photograph, and I prayed about your comments.

                      I sometimes wonder why I know the name of my many great grandfather from around the 1800s but not my many great grandmother's name. Maybe, this was a way he cared for me I did not understand. mtDNA research has offered me an answer that is not recorded in government records. I hope you find DNA research to be just as rewarding as researchers perfect interpretation.

                      Honor thy father and mother . . .

                      Originally posted by rainbow
                      I never understood your post before. I have just re-read it a couple times. I'm used to reading very quickly, as if everyone speaks quickly. Reading this as if it was spoken very, very slowly, with a lot of pauses, I now get what you were saying. Thank you.

                      Comment


                      • another book

                        There is a book offered in a mail order catalog I got in the mail, that looks like it has a bearing on the issue of intermingling between "Whites" and "Indians" during the 18th century. (I think I'll order it).

                        Title: Our Savage Neighbors; How the Indian War Transformed Early America. By Peter Silver. 2007, 352 pages.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by PDHOTLEN
                          There is a book offered in a mail order catalog I got in the mail, that looks like it has a bearing on the issue of intermingling between "Whites" and "Indians" during the 18th century. (I think I'll order it).

                          Title: Our Savage Neighbors; How the Indian War Transformed Early America. By Peter Silver. 2007, 352 pages.
                          I'll check to see if it's in the public library system. That is where I borrowed books by Sykes and Wells, etc.

                          EDIT: I just looked online. My public library system doesn't have it.
                          rainbow
                          FTDNA Customer
                          Last edited by rainbow; 11 July 2007, 08:49 AM.

                          Comment


                          • more about book

                            I still haven't received my book order. I hope it didn't get lost.

                            http://www.scholarsbookshelf.com/history

                            Item number: 6B3BS

                            List price: 25.95

                            Sale price: 20.95

                            I think the point of the book is that the various ethnic groups of white settlers, who normally did not mix with each other, found a common enemy (Indians) that brought them together.

                            Comment


                            • Heritage

                              PDHOTLEN,
                              What is your known heritage? Do you have any Native American? If so what tribe?
                              Maria

                              Comment


                              • American Indian admixture

                                Originally posted by rainbow
                                My mom got her results showing zero Native American, but 5% East Asian. I think I heard/read somewhere that some Native Americans test as East Asian.
                                Mine was 17% Native American, zero East Asian. I now assume that my Indian ancestry all comes down to me from one grandparent, my fathers mother. Her family has been in New Jersey since it was a Province. My fathers fathers parents were immigrants from Europe. Some interesting things I've found on my immigrant great grandfather(my fathers fathers father). He came here from Bremen, Germany as a 'non-immigrant' in 1906, and his listed destination was 'Fordville'. Faintly above it it looks like someone pencilled 'William', so it may be a 'Fort William'. On his naturalization forms, he first tried to say he was from Canada! He listed that he came into the USA from "Port Arthur"?, Canada to Duluth , Minnesota. Why on earth would he be in Canada and Minnesota? I'm left wondering if he was one of those Europeans with Indian ancestry and had searched for his Indian roots. Some white settlers left the USA and went back to Europe, right?
                                Anyway, the most likely explanation for my 17% NA is that it came from one grandparent, my paternal grandmother. I had found that there were Sioux living near to where her family is from. maybe I'm part Sioux? Or maybe nearly all of her direct male ancestors had mostly-Indian wives? That is most likely. I think that maybe most women in rural New Jersey in the 1700s & 1800s were of American Indian descent.
                                A lot of children were taken from their tribes and put in white boarding schools to introduce Indian children into white culture.The Carlisle Industrial School in Carlisle PA was one of these schools. It is possible that one of your acestors was placed there. One friend I grew up with, his grandmother was Cherokee. She was in the Carlisle school. They put soap in her mouth if she spoke her Indian langguage. When she left the school she moved to NY and never went back to her tribe.She was terrified of telling anyone she was Indian. I know another Cherokee that left the school and settled in NJ. I know a Sioux that settled in CT and one that stayed in PA.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X