American Indian admixture in White Americans

[rainbow]

New subclade C1e found in Iceland.

A new C subclade, C1e, was discovered late last year and so far it is only found in Iceland. I just found out about it while searching the web and found a Kim Tallbear blog entry.

C1a is found in Asia only.
C1b,C1c, and C1d are Native American.

[Yaffa]

A new C subclade, C1e, was discovered late last year and so far it is only found in Iceland. I just found out about it while searching the web and found a Kim Tallbear blog entry.

C1a is found in Asia only.
C1b,C1c, and C1d are Native American.

I went into the DNA Forum where PF states there is a discussion that a lot of C's come up in England however I dont know what thread she is reading. I saw a thread discussing this issue and people who do post in here stating it is very Rare to find C in England. And in that thread I saw no one claiming to have taken a FGS MTDNA

In General Always possible an Englishman brought an Indian wife to England like the Pocahontas story or an Indian slave but I can not find anywhere that anyone is claiming "A Lot" of C's are found in England

[Yaffa]

A new C subclade, C1e, was discovered late last year and so far it is only found in Iceland. I just found out about it while searching the web and found a Kim Tallbear blog entry.

C1a is found in Asia only.
C1b,C1c, and C1d are Native American.

I found what PF was referencing about C's in Europe. The discussion was about a few C5

There is some info on this web on FGS for C Haplogroup

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0015214

[purple flowers]

the links are no good now. figures. a whole list of C that were not
"native american " but european.
all over germany and western europe is all kinds of undefined haplogroup C's.


Phill is so sure his mtdna is english prove it! they told us we were germans because you said you were german.. so you can't prove that and I have given you what 4 years too.


phill a common name in female paint clan women was
CHAH wah YOU CAH
K a H U G A . sometimes written like I youcah
AND A MILLION VARIATIONS of spelling ON THIS NAME.

now the name is kind of like berry. could be black berry or raspberry .. whatever it was it was a thorny berry..
or thorn or thorn berry or sometimes green bitter berry etc or even holly , it can be translated in many ways, because the real meaning is about an experience. the scratching and itching you get while picking leaves and berries. . the experience when paint ladies are out picking leaves and berries for
" Medicine" or food.
thus in our matches at smfg is the "Thorn" lady in canada .
the your berry something and my Chahwahyoucah who probably is Shoeboots twin sister and daughter of Ollie Nionee .

now in hunting for his sisters or maybe his AUNTS I REMEMBER MY GREAT GRANDMA talking about a name that was very like one of my teachers name
MRS Pemberton, my Kindergarten teacher .. so I can be found many years ago looking for " Pemberton" at many genealogy boards , because I was looking for his sisters family.. his sister who died on the trail of tears..
I also was looking for how Templetons were related as their was a cute boy in 8th grade named Templeton and grandma said that he might be relations too.. and then I found found a man who claimed to be related to Shoeboots , after see his lineage , his ancestors was a william Templeton who married a Spencer who was or was a daughter of katie spencer daughter of Pumpkin boy and Chahwahyoucah Shoeboots probably twin sister or sister maybe an aunt.
now if you look at our matches you will find a close match is
"Pembleton" now is that close enough to what I was looking for ?
did we just find what I had been looking for ?

.... wanna bet that they trace to Chahwahyoucah or one of her sisters also?

so is Chahwahyoucah his sister or his aunt ? as my PATERNAL great x4 is a "Kahuga" also and she wasn't born paint clan but was adopted paint clan.. though she was also originally probably tuscarora but was a slave when she married Shoeboots .. Kahuga which is the same word same meaning as Chahwahyoucah, she was named after her aunt.. her dad's twin sister. ....

so our matches going all the way to Canada with a lady named Thorn .. oh yes I am in the right family or at least most likely the same clan as my 4+x great grandma Ollie Nionee ...

just don't have positive confirmed identification and confirmed the individual or clan yet for sure . even though the thorny and berry matches point to paint clan..
how Yocum links up I am not will to tell .. but it for sure does .and the Turners which are also close are most likely from Overturner lines. which is definitely part of that family someplace as he was close with Young dragging canoe.

now your falcon berry . so what does falcon berry mean anyway?
maybe sharp talon shaped thorn berries ? maybe really scratchy thorny berry ? deep cutting thorny berry .. so it must have been a very itchy and scratchy berry patch she came from would you say ?

so you still think you are english?
if so prove N, U5b , and X2 Mechtoids known as Allegewi didn't get here before the event and all together !

[barbara]

Hello sisters & brothers, its been awhile. I want to talk about The Family Finder Autosomal test. I have not seen many of you on the FF forum. Have any of you taken it? I did..
First there was the Affy test results, I had no Native [Arctic Newfoundland ] and I did not match my cousin who also took the test. Both of us did our own genealogy, then we found each other and continued together on-line. Her population finder @ that time did have her dna in northern europe, mine was 100% europe. This was november 2010. I was quite upset, was my mother's father not really her father? He's not my Grandfather? Then the conversion to Illumia; no match there, no matches in Newfoundland either. My cousin does have Newfoundland match, not native. The population finder was upgraded, my cousin now has more northern europe/finland. I have northern europe & russia. A couple of weeks ago I sumitted my Affy raw data to Gedmatch; = My cousin & I match !! Then I summited the Illumina Data, matched again. Soo our dna segments are short and FTDNA does not want to publish an unproven goose chase of noise...
There's a long chatter about FTDNA removing the Affy results, I'm sure they will. My postion is : Everyone needs to know about Gedmatch. At least one has the opportunity to check possible matches. There are some serious missing situations/ancestors; adoptions, all known family has passed on, missing links, ect. Although we have not found any paper source on our native Arctic connection; and our dna is short @ best, we're still looking.

[lhy]

I am trying to figure it out how many Natives escaped genocide or expulsion to the west by assimilating and mixing with the pioneer population of the ealy colonies of the United States.

Why? Because I am trying to find out if there was mass admixture in the British colonies like it happened anywhere else in the Americas, Canada included. And that is needed to clarify if there was an actual genocide in East North America or there was something else going on there.

Omar,

That's a valid question.

The Europeans brought epidemic diseases to North America, the most famous of which is smallpox. There are rumors that some British officials intentionally spread the disease to the natives as a crude form of biological warfare.

http://www.umass.edu/legal/derrico/amherst/lord_jeff.html

Remember that the land mass of the United States is unusually large. The Native Americans were sent far away from most European-Americans with the Indian Removal Act of 1830. The Act's most infamous outcome is commonly known as The Trail of Tears. Some Natives fought their removal in wars such as the Seminole Wars. Needless to say, Native American casualties were heavy in these conflicts.

I have also read that, in some communities along the Appalachian mountain range, families of mixed heritage were ostracized and forced to remove to the mountainside, losing access to the town medical care and business opportunities.

Only in recent decades (1960s and on) have people of mixed heritage had their right, to use the same schools, restaurants, and even drinking fountains as those of perceived white heritage, recognized fully in the United States. Prior to 1967, interracial marriage in some states was illegal.

It took an especially brave and enlightened soul for an intermarriage to take place in most communities during the early years of the United States. Anyone with mixed colonial and "early American" heritage can be proud of the courage their ancestors possessed. What great love stories those must be.

[Xolotl]

I don't think there's much amerindian admixture in white americans. Its usually made up. People here love to make up stories about their ancestors. This may apply to the people who have USA colonial ancestry. They usually end up having a black slave ancestor rather than amerindian.

[Táltos]

I don't think there's much amerindian admixture in white americans. Its usually made up. People here love to make up stories about their ancestors. This may apply to the people who have USA colonial ancestry. They usually end up having a black slave ancestor rather than amerindian.

I think there is a lot to the history of the Americas that we don't really know about. I don't have the link handy but google about the Mayans and their ruins MAYBE being found in Georgia. It also went on to say how the native Creeks from the area, their autosomal tests were coming up Mayan, but this may be due to the fact that there is not a "large pool" of Native populations that tested. Kind of like what I'm hearing about certain populations being under tested in Europe. Anyway I think the Discovery channel is supposed to do a story on this in May.

I think that there are some white Americans who may have legitimate Amerindian ancestry but due to the technology (autosomal only goes back 5 generations) and luck of the draw as to what you inherent in your DNA, you can not be able to prove anything. I think anything is possible, I certainly found out things are not what you always think when I started my journey in genealogy!

The bottom line is NO race or ethnic group is better than another. We all eat, sleep, and etc. the same! Everyone should be proud of their results because that is who you are!

mtdna-H

[Favouriteslave]

Being a descendant of melungeons from Kentucky I know what it's like to try and find out what your mixture is. Many mixed races were listed as "mulatto" on their birth records even if they were dark skinned Indians. I'm white but I also carry traits that are Amerindian and African. There are lots of people who think they are Indian and are also mixed with African. It was common then as Indians would mix with Africans when the whites would not. Indian tribes accepted them easier than white communities.

My Great grandfather was clearly Mulatto or Indian by his pictures but was noted as "white" on his birth and census records.

[1_mke]

23andMe shows me as 1/10th of a percent Asian with the rest being European. That could just be noise of course. One of my Kentucky relatives told me that one of my great grandmothers was part Cherokee. Its a common enough claim but that bit of possible Asian lends some credence to it.

My father isn't available for testing. I should try to talk by brother into testing. He might have gotten "luckier" in the native american autosomal DNA sweep stakes.

[nathanm]

(autosomal only goes back 5 generations)

That's a common misconception because of poorly worded FAQs. The FF portion of the test is best for detecting cousins with common ancestors within 5-6 generations, but can sometimes pick up more distant relatives. However, the PF portion of the test goes back much further; according to the FAQ, up to 80 generations back.

[Táltos]

That's a common misconception because of poorly worded FAQs. The FF portion of the test is best for detecting cousins with common ancestors within 5-6 generations, but can sometimes pick up more distant relatives. However, the PF portion of the test goes back much further; according to the FAQ, up to 80 generations back.

So if you wanted to do the test for the population finder, you wouldn't need to have someone in the older generation test to have deeper ancestry show? I think I saw in another post where that was suggested. Of course I guess it would probably be better to have one's mother or father do the test separately if you are female correct? But also certain segments that show on your parents then would not necessarily show on yourself correct?
I wish I won the Mega Millions the other week to have my whole family tested!

mtdna-H

[nathanm]

So if you wanted to do the test for the population finder, you wouldn't need to have someone in the older generation test to have deeper ancestry show? I think I saw in another post where that was suggested.

If your parents were from very different ethnic groups, the three of you might get very different results. The particular combination of segments you inherited can confound the PF algorithm.

Of course I guess it would probably be better to have one's mother or father do the test separately if you are female correct?

For autosomal DNA, male or female doesn't matter. That only comes into play with Y-DNA since only males have Y chromosomes, and mtDNA since everyone has it, but it's inherited from your mother (X-DNA is also effected, but FTDNA doesn't use that part of the FF results yet). It can be helpful to test both parents to determine which segments came from which.

But also certain segments that show on your parents then would not necessarily show on yourself correct?

Correct, we only inherit 50% of each of their autosomal DNA. However, even in cases where one or more parents aren't around, testing multiple siblings can effectively reconstruct more of the parents' DNA.

[Táltos]

Thanks nathanm! That helps me to understand the test better. I am new to all of this, and have not taken this particular test yet. I am interested in doing it in the future. If you can just explain a little more about the algorithm getting confounded. I think it would probably do that in my case because I'm a mutt!!

mtdna-H

[thetick]

By confound I think nathan means the PF tool will match your genetic segments to the closest population. You get 50 % of your autosomal dna from each parent and there's no guarantee you get equal weights of their ethnicities in your genes and consequently PF.

Take this example. This is purely for illustration, but could technically happen. In reality all degrees are possible, but you are much more likely to get ethnicities spread evenly.

Suppose a 50% German 50% / Chinese mother and a 50% African / 50% Pakistani father have two children.

One child could theoretically get 50% German and 50% African while second child could get 50% Chinese / 50% Pakistani. The children's PF would literally be on the other side of the world.