American Indian admixture in White Americans

[Yaffa]

During the battle yes, but after Jackson became President he was responsible for extensive Indian Removal legislation. Basically once Jackson was done using the Cherokee for military purposes he wanted nothing more to do with them.

I know there's mixed people in Tennessee too, but for the point of my knowledge base I deal with Overton County (which the area in Overton County that's more likely to have admix it seems is Alpine because of Nettle Carrier, others in Overton County that were like my family were very Jacksonian on Indian matters (A type of Manifest Destiny where our kind were inspired by pioneering by force, we were the "yeomen" by status but Jacksonian by terms of Indian Removal and a willingness to go out and take territory), the rare exception occurred when a brother of an ancestor went into Alpine and took an native wife).

After the War of 1812 there was very very very poor relations between the Cherokee and Jackson (and those connected to Jackson's politics).

Yes after 1812 Jackson became the Devil to the Cherokee. Im not researching TN but I know people who are who are of mixed ancestry from different counties in TN. Actual Indian removal wasnt until the 1830's http://www.cherokee-nc.com/index.php?page=62

[Barreldriver]

Yes after 1812 Jackson became the Devil to the Cherokee. Im not researching TN but I know people who are who are of mixed ancestry from different counties in TN. Actual Indian removal wasnt until the 1830's http://www.cherokee-nc.com/index.php?page=62

Do you know which counties they were? I'm curious to see if there's a way to find a trend in townships or counties, like in Overton County the mixing seems to be from the place called Alpine (the Alpine community was often targeted by the KKK who burnt down the Alpine Institute), while in places like Livingston [where I'm from] a number of the Whites were more segregated, coincidentally there's a higher population of unmixed Amerinds in Livingston as opposed to Alpine but Alpine has a higher mixed population, assumably due to the Livingston Whites typically minding themselves after the old fighting allowing for more Amerinds to be able to remain isolated while in Alpine the attitude was a friendly one between the former Nettle Carrier folks and the Whites so they would be more likely to mix. Memories of the Euro vs. Amerind fights still survive to today, grew up with the oral tradition to never go outside past 8 p.m. or else the Cherokee ghost will "git ya'".

Then there's places like the Vardy community in Hancock County which are known for mixing. I'm wondering if in those other counties you know of if the mixing was county wide or if it was more localized to specific communities like what was seen in Vardy and Alpine.

[Yaffa]

Do you know which counties they were? I'm curious to see if there's a way to find a trend in townships or counties, like in Overton County the mixing seems to be from the place called Alpine (the Alpine community was often targeted by the KKK who burnt down the Alpine Institute), while in places like Livingston [where I'm from] a number of the Whites were more segregated, coincidentally there's a higher population of unmixed Amerinds in Livingston as opposed to Alpine but Alpine has a higher mixed population, assumably due to the Livingston Whites typically minding themselves after the old fighting allowing for more Amerinds to be able to remain isolated while in Alpine the attitude was a friendly one between the former Nettle Carrier folks and the Whites so they would be more likely to mix. Memories of the Euro vs. Amerind fights still survive to today, grew up with the oral tradition to never go outside past 8 p.m. or else the Cherokee ghost will "git ya'".

Then there's places like the Vardy community in Hancock County which are known for mixing. I'm wondering if in those other counties you know of if the mixing was county wide or if it was more localized to specific communities like what was seen in Vardy and Alpine.

Hancock TN - is the Melungeon DNA project here. Those people came from VA to Granville NC to Burke NC and Wilkes NC and then to TN. They have nothing to do with the Cherokee. Some of my cousin lines were in the Eastern TN/Western NC border. Where all the Cherokee resided prior to taking the trial, Im not sure where in TN but there are maps if you google or go on the USgenweb for TN. There is a lot of info on that web. http://www.tngenweb.org/

[Barreldriver]

Hancock TN - is the Melungeon DNA project here. Those people came from VA to Granville NC to Burke NC and Wilkes NC and then to TN. They have nothing to do with the Cherokee. Some of my cousin lines were in the Eastern TN/Western NC border. Where all the Cherokee resided prior to taking the trial, Im not sure where in TN but there are maps if you google or go on the USgenweb for TN. There is a lot of info on that web. http://www.tngenweb.org/

Thought since the Melungeons were "triracial" they would have had some Cherokee admix. or other Amerindian admix.

[Yaffa]

Thought since the Melungeons were "triracial" they would have had some Cherokee admix. or other Amerindian admix.

This is kind of confusing. The people who were called Melungeon in Hancock TN were African and European. There were a few Indians that marry into these lines but those Indian line surnames were never called Melungeon. Are you confused yet???? LOL Those Indian lines came from VA. Tribes unknown but they were not Cherokee.

[kawashkar]

Given the exchange between me and smallaxe I understand that DNA tests cannot prove the lack of ancestors, only the existence of those ancestors whose material managed to get passed down, and regarding my case admixture cannot be proven because I did not inherit anything that indicates it and I have no paper trail links to Amerindian ancestors (only links to cousins who have ancestors with admix whose admixture came from a line unrelated to myself).

So? What's the point?
Obviously, Amerindian admixture is not dominant in the U.S. That's something everybody knows. The country was flooded by European immigrants during the late 19th and early 20th century and that changed its demography.

However, a certain level of admiture exists among White Americans and other groups. Now, for people that know the genealogical documented link, I bet they are a small minority, but many more have Amerindian ancestors and aren't aware of it, and theirs genetic tests may not reveal anything, at least they are lucky.

That was all the point of this thread.

[kawashkar]

So true about the dead ends and also many who dont match surname on DNA or have bastardy bond records. Some of the tribes were matriarchal like the Cherokee where child followed mother clan not father.

Now I have been watching documentaries and many believe and so do I there were more Indian's here than recorded by the Europeans. The Indians were not recording the history, the Europeans were. Hopefully more DNA testers might prove this one day. Not all were wiped out by smallpox. The biggest killer to the Indian's was the church with conversion and assimilation into European culture. Just for example researching Mexico most if not all are mostly Indian with smaller mixtures of Spanish and African.. Many historians in Mexico will tell you this by studying all the records there. My Indian ancestors in Mexico remarry a few times because their spouses die. It could have been disease, murder, Child birth. Many dont realize how many women may have died in childbirth. I have many ancestors who remarry because a wife or husband has died. Some women recorded to be childbirth.

I am afraid African culture is not relevant in Mexico as it is in the U.S. The U.S. is a very Africanized country, perhaps like Dominican Republic or Brazil, but most Hispanic America is more Iberian Indigenous than African.
In Mexico Africans were a small group with a contribution comparable to the Phillipines and other exotic foreigners of colonial times. The largest groups in Mexico were, and are, Iberians and Native Americans.

And yes, unlike in the U.S., in Hispanic America the Amerindian ancestry is something respected.

[kawashkar]

This is kind of confusing. The people who were called Melungeon in Hancock TN were African and European. There were a few Indians that marry into these lines but those Indian line surnames were never called Melungeon. Are you confused yet???? LOL Those Indian lines came from VA. Tribes unknown but they were not Cherokee.

What's funny is that mixed people of Amerindian and White people could usually be confussed with Whites, and they actually passed as such.
Today, many Americans look Amerindians but they are convinced theirs origins are fully European.

[Yaffa]

I am afraid African culture is not relevant in Mexico as it is in the U.S. The U.S. is a very Africanized country, perhaps like Dominican Republic or Brazil, but most Hispanic America is more Iberian Indigenous than African.
In Mexico Africans were a small group with a contribution comparable to the Phillipines and other exotic foreigners of colonial times. The largest groups in Mexico were, and are, Iberians and Native Americans.

And yes, unlike in the U.S., in Hispanic America the Amerindian ancestry is something respected.

Yes they are mostly indigenous, then Spaniard and African mix is at the bottom of the pecking order - See my link for Casta

Places to get info:

http://www.somosprimos.com/

http://johnwilmot.wordpress.com/race-in-mexico/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casta

also a good new 2010 PBS documentary - When Worlds Collide

[Yaffa]

What's funny is that mixed people of Amerindian and White people could usually be confussed with Whites, and they actually passed as such.
Today, many Americans look Amerindians but they are convinced theirs origins are fully European.

there are some people who have more recent Indian ancestors like me but many people may have an Indian ancestor or ancestors way back there to very early colonial times before women were brought here. I grew up in NY so I know many people who have no Indian ancestors and their ancestors came through Ellis Island

[PDHOTLEN]

fuzzy ancestry

There is a rather rare HVR1 match to me on Mitosearch, who is given as being from England. But then a cryptic statement at the bottom saying she had Tuscarora ancestry. I tried to contact the email address, but got no answer at all.

[Barreldriver]

^There were some rare cases of Amerindians brought over to England during the early colonization of the U.S. Could be a rare descendant of one of those.

[Yaffa]

There is a rather rare HVR1 match to me on Mitosearch, who is given as being from England. But then a cryptic statement at the bottom saying she had Tuscarora ancestry. I tried to contact the email address, but got no answer at all.

Being that A, B C, D and some X are only accepted as Indian at the moment, It's possible that a European woman married into the tribe and male line is Indian. No telling unless this person can show you factual paper connecting to the Tuscarora. This tribe left Eastern NC and became the 6th Nation of NY due to Indian slavery. Now is it possible they took an Indian slave to England, yes. Maybe this person has some kind of slave papers from ship records.

[kawashkar]

Being that A, B C, D and some X are only accepted as Indian at the moment, It's possible that a European woman married into the tribe and male line is Indian. No telling unless this person can show you factual paper connecting to the Tuscarora. This tribe left Eastern NC and became the 6th Nation of NY due to Indian slavery. Now is it possible they took an Indian slave to England, yes. Maybe this person has some kind of slave papers from ship records.

Well, if somebody has A,B,C, D or X certainly chances are they are Amerindian descendents... although they could be Japanese descendents.

But if they don't have those mtDNA haplogroups, it doen't mean they aren't descendents of Amerindians! They could descend from an European women by the female line and an European male from the masculine line, and still descend from American Indians!

[rainbow]

That's true. American Indian ancestry could be from any line. It could be from the father's mother's father's mother.

I wanted to add that if a person has A,B,C,D, or X it is important to do the FGS or subclade test to find out if it is AmerIndian, Asian, or European. Some X is found in Europe. I have a 23andme cousin match who is a D, but she is Japanese on her mom's side. Her subclade is Asian. I read that some Scandinavians have East Asian mtdna.